Turbo Sliders Feature Requests

[dede]

For many players, and in particular for those who are interested in truthful lap records, tracks with bump possibilities are quite annoying. Recent advances in forestry serve as an example. In that sense, it could be useful if collisions to track objects could be treated in a similar fashion with collisions to other cars, which is, to add c to the end of the laptime. That change could also help people to honour the original meaning of the trackmaker, instead of trying to find tricks in the tracks.

Yeah, that would be quite a good idea. A better idea would be having a ranking without cheats (if bump is detected -> track is removed). Hopefully we'll have that on ts.com I'd suggest to remove the old ranking as well.

[mikko]

A better idea would be having a ranking without cheats (if bump is detected -> track is removed). Hopefully we'll have that on ts.com I'd suggest to remove the old ranking as well.

That would be an excellent solution. In my opinion, also those tracks where breaking is necessary to get a fast time with antislider should be removed. But obviously many disagree with me in that.

[Janne]

breaking is necessary to get a fast time with antislider should be removed.

Yeah, also braking with speeder shouldn't be allowed in the new superamazing ranking system because it can be too hard.

I'd suggest to remove the old ranking as well.

Why?

[dede]

.. breaking is necessary to get a fast time with antislider should be removed. But obviously many disagree with me in that.

Well, braking with anti is just a technique, it's not a cheat in my opinion.
About removing the old ranking, we actually can't be sure about which records are cheated and which ones are real, can you? If anyone thinks he can, well, he's wrong (but I won't specify anything more about this, otherwise this would kill lapwanking ).
Having a ranking based on videos (how about automatically sharing all videos with other players, through the ranking?) will solve the cheating problem

[Janne]

Having a ranking based on videos (how about automatically sharing all videos with other players, through the ranking?) will solve the cheating problem

So, why can't you have that system with default tracks basing ranking?

About removing the old ranking, we actually can't be sure about which records are cheated and which ones are real, can you?

Well, I can be sure that none of my records are cheated, (as hitting obstacles isn't cheating.)

[mikko]

Yeah, also braking with speeder shouldn't be allowed in the new superamazing ranking system because it can be too hard.

Good point, but I don’t accept your irony. How many actually break with anti in racing situations (when their aim is to win the race)? While breaking naturally has an important role in speeder-racing, it obviously has not with anti. For anti, it is just another trick discovered by the lapwankers. With sliding cars they bump and with anti they brake. Hence, I see no actual need to test driver’s skills in anti-braking as it is does not belong to anti racing. But as I said, this is just my personal opinion, as I hate those few tracks where breaking with anti is beneficial (I also hate those tracks where you can bump with sliding cars). It is OK to me if anti-breaking will be allowed. I just wish it won’t be.

Well, I can be sure that none of my records are cheated, (as hitting obstacles isn't cheating.)

It depends on who you ask. If you ask me, that is cheating since the trackmaker has not meant the track to be driven that way.

[dede]

So, why can't you have that system with default tracks basing ranking?

About removing the old ranking, we actually can't be sure about which records are cheated and which ones are real, can you?

Well, I can be sure that none of my records are cheated, (as hitting obstacles isn't cheating.)

Why using default tracks when we can have nice tracks instead? And imo hitting obstacles shouldn't be considered a good way of obtaining a record. Same for getting pushed for extra speed, and other similar tricks. And cheats and so on.

[dede]

Good point, but I don’t accept your irony. How many actually break with anti in racing situations (when their aim is to win the race)?

Well, I'm doing that sometime (and Tijny as well, I guess). But I'm not an expert with AntiSlider (mostly I brake when I'm trying to overtake somebody, not really to get faster ). Anyway, I think that braking with AntiSlider can't be compared to other tricks&cheats. It's just a driving style.

[dby]

Breaking with anti helps you overtake or drive faster?? How is that possible?

[mikko]

Breaking with anti helps you overtake or drive faster?? How is that possible?

In certain tight curves it is beneficial to go all out to the curve, then break and try to keep the momentum left after braking. It is very tricky to do and most attempts fail (my experience) unless you are very skilled and well-trained in that technique. If it fails you lose a lot of time. Because it usually fails, it hardly is the fastest way to drive a race through, but it sure helps in lapwanking where you only need to get one fast lap.

And dede, yes, it is not a cheat but a technique (but mostly it is a lapwanking technique). That is why I accept it while I would never accept bumping in tracks where bump is only possible due to vulnerable track design (e.g. forestry). It is different if the bump possibility is there intentionally, but it never is in good racing tracks.

[Mike Nike]

Well, in the last antislider league race i drove 29 of 30 laps 1 curve with braking. Though while in practice i tend to get the curve nearly each time very good (x)or crashed, in race in the most times i tend to drive it bad because i feared to crash.
On the other side, i remember good a situation in some rdp-cup (rough racing) - Fewdoll speeder. Tijny was leading and i was behind and we both wallbounced in the same way (i got it nearly perfect) which gave me the opportunity to catch him in the last curve by pushing him.

Anyway, braking with AntiSlider, bouncing with Slider and wallhitting with Speeder are nice technics i like to support - in some tracks the author even wants that a bounce is used. Infact, in comparison to dede i would love to have more tracks with bouncing possibilities or parts where you can gain time by braking with AntiSlider. Certainly though, Forestry's haybales are weird. I remember good when i first tested the bounce possibility 1-2 years ago, but i skipped after a few laps because it was too nervy to drive because bouncing twice into these haybales in a perfect way without getting stuck did not feel that easy. 1 hard to take curve (like a wallbounce or a tight brake) is usually enough for a track. If there are 2 or more, you need a lot more laps to drive 1 very fast lap in average :/
Amazing by the way, how soon Tijny reached this 21.216 with speeder. I've done at least a 21.6xy in the first few laps^^...but i doubt i have nervs to try much harder, even bouncing is usually something i like.

Removing the recordlist does not sound nice in my ears on the one side, on the other it know about the problem of cheated records - early 2006 it maybe was (?) i more or less stopped trying to drive any laprecord due to the very little cheat possibility.
Consequently some different new rankings might certainly be a nice choice from the official side to add some competition in the community.

[Jarno]

I agree with mike. There should be more bounces, ultra tight curves and even risky shortcuts. Nowadays tracks are almost copy of each others. That makes those boring but they are fair for each others. I agree my "best" tracks are boring. They doesnt allow to cheat. Tracks should be fun and different. They should offer challenge for players who drives a lot.

Removing record lists... My recs are clean. Those whom recs arent, well its their problem. And i dont mean bounces but those helps by others.
Offical record tracks should be hard ones. Where your skill can make record, not amount of laps you drive. For example like rush hour

Wanking generally sucks. Wanking for one lap should be changed to wanking for race like 5 laps or so.

[Tijny]

About braking with Anti - I use it regularly even in racing situations, so it is not a lapwanking technique per se. Although, maybe that's just because I like to stick to the wanking line whenever possible...
Like Mike, I really like tracks with braking possibilities; it can give the ones who use it an edge over the others, only by use of a different line. Isn't that what racing is supposed to be about?
Also, there are certain players (like Etana) who tap the brake in many turns, without "losing control". So what should be allowed and what shouldn't? My point is, over the years braking has become a substantial part of AntiSlider driving, and prohibiting it would NOT be a good idea.

[Janne]

How many actually break with anti in racing situations (when their aim is to win the race)? While breaking naturally has an important role in speeder-racing, it obviously has not with anti. For anti, it is just another trick discovered by the lapwankers.

Well, come to Full Contact server and many people does that thing with RDP-antislider, but with normal anti most of curves just are not tricky enough to make it any useful. Of course you can use it in some overtaking situations though.

Why using default tracks when we can have nice tracks instead?

It's simply matter of taste what can be called nice. I would still like to continue wanking in default tracks and IMO those (big most of them) are nice.

[Tijny]

Why using default tracks when we can have nice tracks instead?

It's simply matter of taste what can be called nice. I would still like to continue wanking in default tracks and IMO those (big most of them) are nice.

I think the problem isn't that the default tracks aren't nice; it's just that these tracks have been wanked so incredibly much that people have grown bored of them (that goes for me at least). This, combined with the fact that there are nicer tracks out there, tells me that it is indeed time for something new. This doesn't mean that the old ranking should be removed however; I'd say the old page should remain there for the sake of nostalgia.

[dede]

Wanking for one lap should be changed to wanking for race like 5 laps or so.

And that wouldn't make any difference. It won't be racing anyway, it'll be wanking still. Having a ranking with 5 laps wanking would mean no possibility for newbies of getting a good position (not even with luck) -> no challenge -> boring for newbies.

About the old page, yeah, it could remain there. But it's not good seeing so many cheated (cheats, tricks, bumps) records there. The new ranking will bring new tracks, totaltime (sum of every car, for each track), and points (based on positions - no need to drive all tracks/cars to be listed). Plus downloadable (? not sure yet ?) videos for top10, and much more. Hopefully we'll have some nice challenge there and we will forget those cheats/bumps/tricks Lapwanking should be all about skills and pure speed, not about bouncing and cheating.

[Limp-pu]

Let people wank the way they want. It's up to everyone himself to deside how much he/she respects lap-records made for bouncable tracks. I dont respect much records that require thousands of unsuccesfull attemps to bounce from the rigth pixel. Even tough, these tracks shouldn't be removed from a racing server, because in a race these bounces etc. make tracks more different from each others. Moreover, its a different thing to bounce in a race than while lapwanking.

When people looks for records in lets say ts.com they should know whether a track is bouncable or not. For this reason the tracks could be divided into subcategories like (bouncing possible/ bouncing not possible). So bouncable tracks shouldnt be exluded totaly.

Videos would be good way to assure that laps are clean. Though, submitting a video to some server would take too much effort. (i think. at least not all people are not ready for that)

Braking. Thats not a cheat. Not with anti or any other car. It's just difficult. Some things are meant to be difficult.

Just my opinions.. me.. i dont wank anyway so...

[Janne]

it's just that these tracks have been wanked so incredibly much that people have grown bored of them

You are right with that. I don't mean that new ranking wouldn't be welcomed for me if it's well made, but I wouldn't like to have the old ranking destroyed. Not only for nostalgia, but also being able to import and export the records. And so what then if one has grown bored, he or she isn't forced to drive.


I really hope that the new ranking isn't just all about "copy of each other" 20-30s racing tracks.

[mikko]

Guys, thanks for your points of view. Perhaps anti-braking was more popular than I originally thought. Now I'm convinced it is part of anti-driving and should not be forbidden in the forthcoming rankings. The fact that I don't like it is obviously secondary in importance; it is my any only my problem, not those problem who prefer to maximize their performance that way. After all, it is driving style, not cheat as dede pointed out.

Considering bumping, I was a bit surprised it is that popular. I still think bumping should not be allowed. In tracks where there is no intentional bump possibility, I see no big difference whether you get extra speed for bumping from either other car or from obstacles. I consider both of them cheats. Considering new rankings, if bumping is to become allowed, it should only take place in tracks designed for bumping. If that is the way things proceed, I will probably just not drive those tracks because I simply do not like that kind of driving. But, again, that is my and only my problem.

Looking forward to see the new ranking system in action. Undoubtedly, it will be much better than the current one. I also think that the current ranking should not be removed. It can coexist there as joy for those who like it and are not too concerned about cheating. After all, one can always try to improve personal bests, whether they are cheated or not.

[Janne]

Nowadays tracks are almost copy of each others. That makes those boring but they are fair for each others.

That's true, but according to my experiences if you try to make something new or different, the tracks will be hardly noticed not to even talk about being raced. That doesn't really encourage to try making something other than those "copies."

[dede]

Okay, so let's just leave the old ranking there. But I won't link it from TS.com directly, because some newbie could think "how's that possible??" looking e.g. at arena's eZ rec. I think as well that I'll drive those tracks trying to improve my pb's (or to get one!). But I'll focus mainly on the new ranking.
Ah yes, the new ranking. Well, I won't consider to add bouncy tracks in it. That ranking should be considered like an "optimization" of racing skills (pure racing!), there's no room for vimio tracks at the moment But well, maybe in the future there will be different types of ranking (we already discussed about a ranking dedicated to brazilian cars, with brazilian tracks -> could be a good way to challenge brazilian players, since it's not possible in servers). We'll see!

[olio]

I'm simple person, so I think this simply. I consider everything that isn't possible in real racing, as a cheat. Well, rough racing, fun cups, etc. are different, in there people can bounce, have multiple routes, whatever. Couldn't care less. But when we are talking about pure racing and racing records, bouncing is a cheat. For example no F1, Rally, MotoGP or RallyCross driver bounce from rocks, trees, walls, do they? It might harm their vehicle a bit... In some cases I even consider cutting through grass/sand as a cheat. I would like to see more cups with damage, since I haven't seen any of them on my TS-career. Well, this is just my opinion.

[Jarno]

Nowadays tracks are almost copy of each others. That makes those boring but they are fair for each others.

That's true, but according to my experiences if you try to make something new or different, the tracks will be hardly noticed not to even talk about being raced. That doesn't really encourage to try making something other than those "copies."

Well that is true too. But you just have to find to way to introduce those. Like i do in full contact cups. And if you make some ridicilous fun track i'm happy to use it Or if you make your own cup i'm happy to join.

For example no F1, Rally, MotoGP or RallyCross driver bounce from rocks, trees, walls, do they? It might harm their vehicle a bit...

Eh? When did turbo slider became some of those? It is slicks'n slide type of game where fun rating is before realism. Fortunately ts makes both possible. But who said that realism should put first in line before fun?
Its simple fact that people like boths so they shouldnt put each other in shadow.

[Mike Nike]

Ah, nice comments, pleasure to read and some nice words by Jarno

@ dede
good idea with the additional cars - on the other hand: you maybe know, i am more active in the brasilian community than in the europe one. RDP cups aren't easy there and punaball nearly senseless when the skill of opponents start to get higher... but hotlap cups or ghostraces usually still work at least
I think we can add many tracks and rank them. Probably we can discuss a ranking factor of some tracktypes, like: "normal pure racing skill track a la dede" means factor 1 (normal) while "bouncy luck tricky not good for lapwank"-track get a factor <<1 (like 0.5 or 0.25 or whatever), so people get less points in comparison.
If someone knows Trackmania Nation ;D...he might know about TMX - there the most driven tracks count as more public - as consequence driving the best lap is far higher ranked than the laprecord in a track where only 5 people drove/got a record. On that way, we can let the community decide by itself, automaticly, which track should be ranked higher.

[dede]

No, I'm not planning to add many tracks to the ranking. At the beginning we'll have about 10 racing tracks (default cars only), so that people can start wanking and getting a rank at those. Then probably we will add more tracks, up to 30 (like the old ranking). Naturally there will be the possibility to add (and remove) tracks to the ranking in the future as well, so that the ranking will remain "active" and "open". As I said, many tracks would mean quite a lot of work for me to validate videos, and at the same time it would mean having easier records. But yeah, it would be nice having an "all tracks" ranking like you described (and at the same time, an "all cups" ranking too ). This isn't planned in short time though.