Punaball 2x2 Winter League 2012

Lea · Post by **Lea** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:05 pm

22:00 it s too late for me means 18:00 here and i work at this time... gl mates

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

I'll post here too so everyone can see it...

IMPORTANT!

Posting in behalf of Fama as he can't post right now.

There are two unplayed matches:
Stealth+Kooler+Popo vs Dide+edy1999+Sarangheyo: Tuesday 11.12.2012 at 21:00 CET
Stealth+Kooler+Popo vs Lea+Luka Modric+Whiplash: Tuesday 11.12.2012 at 22:00 CET

The matches must be played at those times. If one team fails to show up, the match is awarded 10-0 to the other team. If neither team shows up, no points are awarded for that match. I'll be on IRC at those times so I can make those decisions if needed. If you manage to play the matches before the designated time though, feel free to do so.

szymek66 · Post by **szymek66** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Famagusta$ wrote:[...]
Posting in behalf of Fama [...]

Copy/Paste fail

Pingu · Post by **Pingu** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:27 pm

Famagusta$ wrote:I'll post here too so everyone can see it...

IMPORTANT!

Posting in behalf of Fama as he can't post right now.

There are two unplayed matches:
Stealth+Kooler+Popo vs Dide+edy1999+Sarangheyo: Tuesday 11.12.2012 at 21:00 CET
Stealth+Kooler+Popo vs Lea+Luka Modric+Whiplash: Tuesday 11.12.2012 at 22:00 CET

The matches must be played at those times. If one team fails to show up, the match is awarded 10-0 to the other team. If neither team shows up, no points are awarded for that match. I'll be on IRC at those times so I can make those decisions if needed. If you manage to play the matches before the designated time though, feel free to do so.

zzz boring that you give in, rules are supposed to be rules right. This is gonna cost us the semi finals!

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Pingu wrote:zzz boring that you give in, rules are supposed to be rules right.

Exactly, and the rules in the 1st post say:

"If after a deadline there are unplayed matches, one date will be fixed for a match to take place (The Sunday of the 2nd week). If only one team arrives to that match, they win by forfeit"

There shouldn't actually be that Sunday part at all. Anyway, it clearly states "after the deadline", so I think this is the fairest solution for everyone.

Post by **Tijny** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Pingu wrote:zzz boring that you give in, rules are supposed to be rules right. This is gonna cost us the semi finals!

I understand your frustration, but I can also understand where the organizers are coming from: they just want to have all matches played even though popo's argument resembled that of a 5-year-old. The fact that you have to rely on unplayed matches to advance to the semi-finals simply means that you didn't play well enough yourself.

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:27 pm

That's utterly ridiculous though. The other 2 teams gain nothing by showing up. The only winner here is the team that didn't bother setting up matches within scheduled time frame.

Lost_KiLler · Post by **Lost_KiLler** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:01 am

Magico wrote:That's utterly ridiculous though. The other 2 teams gain nothing by showing up. The only winner here is the team that didn't bother setting up matches within scheduled time frame.

I agree with this one, Magico pointed well what's wrong with these re-scheduled games.
Popovich team couldn't play at the scheduled times Famagusta$ marked, they made a mistake not playing their games before the deadline and they end up benefiting from the situation.

At least this should be an example for future cups, the teams aren't rewarded by playing first.

I've never played the 1 day cups (actually this one is the first cup i ever played) but it does seem better than a 2 weeks cup. Not Famagusta$ fault tough, since he had a hard work and everything was well organized, but with so many people involved there was a high probability that someone would miss.

Sry once again for my faulty english, i think it is understandable enough tough

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:20 am

In behalve of Team Magicoz and after consideration between me and Pingu we are departing from this competition and possibly any other tournament in the future as well.

We find the decisions made by the tournament organisers simply too unjust. (I'd rather prefer to use a word stupidity). The organisers were fully aware that there weren't just handing stealthkooler team another chance but offering them semifinals on the silver plate. We are all aware how hard it has been to organise games the past weeks. Now in given 1 day there are 3 teams which 2 have already qualified and 1 that didn't bother at all to even finish the group stage. Even if 1 out of the 2 of these teams didn't show up (why would they anyway?) the currently previously mentioned S&K&P team would get 3 pts with +10 pts goal difference, which alone would be enough to guarantee their placing in the semi finals. Even popowitch would be able to do this math, so why would we expect any less from Fama & Jan.

It's all too obvious that even when they actually have to admit these flaws it'd do even more damage to their credibility to back down the decision. Our reasons for departing are beyond the game play. We simply lack the motivation to continue this farce, we have no reason to believe the organisers are acting unbiased (the new rules just happen to drop by the sky on day by day basis) and we have been outcast from the tournament.

Regardless of the happenings today, the decision stands.
Also as Tijny pointed out, our tournee wasn't the best by all means, but we were still better than "them" (proven 28.11). With that, all the best of luck stealth koo and co.

Over and out, The Magicoz.

szymek66 · Post by **szymek66** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 pm

Cup is ending on scheduled time - people complaining
Unplayed matches are re-scheduled - people complaining...

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:38 pm

Magico wrote:In behalve of Team Magicoz and after consideration between me and Pingu we are departing from this competition and possibly any other tournament in the future as well.

We find the decisions made by the tournament organisers simply too unjust. (I'd rather prefer to use a word stupidity). The organisers were fully aware that there weren't just handing stealthkooler team another chance but offering them semifinals on the silver plate. We are all aware how hard it has been to organise games the past weeks. Now in given 1 day there are 3 teams which 2 have already qualified and 1 that didn't bother at all to even finish the group stage. Even if 1 out of the 2 of these teams didn't show up (why would they anyway?) the currently previously mentioned S&K&P team would get 3 pts with +10 pts goal difference, which alone would be enough to guarantee their placing in the semi finals. Even popowitch would be able to do this math, so why would we expect any less from Fama & Jan.

It's all too obvious that even when they actually have to admit these flaws it'd do even more damage to their credibility to back down the decision. Our reasons for departing are beyond the game play. We simply lack the motivation to continue this farce, we have no reason to believe the organisers are acting unbiased (the new rules just happen to drop by the sky on day by day basis) and we have been outcast from the tournament.

Regardless of the happenings today, the decision stands.
Also as Tijny pointed out, our tournee wasn't the best by all means, but we were still better than "them" (proven 28.11). With that, all the best of luck stealth koo and co.

Over and out, The Magicoz.

That rule has been in effect since the beginning. For some reason Fama just forgot it and announced the semi finals too early, and after that popo pointed that out. I'm not sure if it's a good rule to allow one more day to play, but the truth is the rule has always been there so the fairest solution is to obey it.

I don't really mind if I don't see your kind of attitude in future competitions anyway. Remember this is the first this kind of league and every one of us is here to LEARN how to do this better. The correct approach isn't to egoistically quit everything just if one decision goes against you. For you it seems to be more important that you win a sucky league rather than lose in a successful one.

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:05 pm

Jan wrote:
Magico wrote:In behalve of Team Magicoz and after consideration between me and Pingu we are departing from this competition and possibly any other tournament in the future as well.

We find the decisions made by the tournament organisers simply too unjust. (I'd rather prefer to use a word stupidity). The organisers were fully aware that there weren't just handing stealthkooler team another chance but offering them semifinals on the silver plate. We are all aware how hard it has been to organise games the past weeks. Now in given 1 day there are 3 teams which 2 have already qualified and 1 that didn't bother at all to even finish the group stage. Even if 1 out of the 2 of these teams didn't show up (why would they anyway?) the currently previously mentioned S&K&P team would get 3 pts with +10 pts goal difference, which alone would be enough to guarantee their placing in the semi finals. Even popowitch would be able to do this math, so why would we expect any less from Fama & Jan.

It's all too obvious that even when they actually have to admit these flaws it'd do even more damage to their credibility to back down the decision. Our reasons for departing are beyond the game play. We simply lack the motivation to continue this farce, we have no reason to believe the organisers are acting unbiased (the new rules just happen to drop by the sky on day by day basis) and we have been outcast from the tournament.

Regardless of the happenings today, the decision stands.
Also as Tijny pointed out, our tournee wasn't the best by all means, but we were still better than "them" (proven 28.11). With that, all the best of luck stealth koo and co.

Over and out, The Magicoz.
That rule has been in effect since the beginning. For some reason Fama just forgot it and announced the semi finals too early, and after that popo pointed that out. I'm not sure if it's a good rule to allow one more day to play, but the truth is the rule has always been there so the fairest solution is to obey it.

I don't really mind if I don't see your kind of attitude in future competitions anyway. Remember this is the first this kind of league and every one of us is here to LEARN how to do this better. The correct approach isn't to egoistically quit everything just if one decision goes against you. For you it seems to be more important that you win a sucky league rather than lose in a successful one.

Oh really?

Last edited by Famagusta$ on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:36 am; edited 24 times in total

Well it sure seems quite convenient that you've had statistic ruling since the beginning while the guy edit's his own post 24 times, only for the fun of it? Atleast there's no way of knowing where we're going unless you have the original print memorised.

I have to say though you really didn't have much thoughts thinking it through if your actually being honest. Still seems more or less contradicting. Don't you think those 24 edits kinda give you away (last one on yesterday

)?

No worriez Jan I won't be missing you much either. You really misinterpreted me if you really thought it was ever about winning or losing. The point is was and will be, that we thought we were partaking in an fairplay competition until that illusion were broken.

Anyways keep playing the saint, after all it's almost xmas and all.
Don't really got much else to add in.

For the rest, gl have fun and so forth!

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:46 pm

Magico wrote:I have to say though you really didn't have much thoughts thinking it through if your actually being honest. Still seems more or less contradicting. Don't you think those 24 edits kinda give you away (last one on yesterday )?!

I agree with you there. At the beginning the rules should be posted somewhere and that post should not be edited afterwards. I can't prove it, but that rule was there at the beginning. I myself made that rule so that it would make it more likely that people will manage to play their games. It's just lame if most of the games are not played. Doesn't it give the fairest result when all the games are played rather than only some of them? Why the hell would any organiser be biased against anyone anyway if they want the competition to be successful? If we didn't give a chance to play those 2 matches, wouldn't it be more biased as the results would be inaccurate? I don't really wonder at all why people don't want to organise anything in TS as people are so ungrateful.

xzeal · Post by **xzeal** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:06 pm

Magico wrote: Also as Tijny pointed out, our tournee wasn't the best by all means, but we were still better than "them" (proven 28.11). With that, all the best of luck stealth koo and co.

Yeah you beat them and thus you were better than them. Also North Korea is the world champion in football

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial ... mpionships

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:05 pm

I've edited my overall post and many others because im usually not happy with what i write and i always want to add/change things. I didn't change any rule to be biased with the team y. I can't understand what this has to do with the extra day that was stablished. I mean: whats my point to benefit magicos or popp? I just want all the games played.

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:38 am

And one more thing i would like to say: its very unfair to hear some commentaries here related to the league format itself: this was not created to be perfect and to be a role model for future leagues/cup: this was created fot everyone to learn with this, share new ideas to make some better leagues.

But like jan said, people are very ungrateful and dont reckonize the effort that is beyond any rule created.

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:51 am

magicos and arsen, as the teams with unplayed matches didn't show up ,and the current league table will remain like this, you guys still in or not?

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:59 am

Cannot say in behalve of arsene since haven't been in touch, but we already resigned from the circus.
Perhaps if he and poops both want to play, there you have a duo for the semis.

olio · Post by **olio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:55 am

It's no circus anymore, when the clowns have left.

Storyline of the Magicoz:
1. Didn't read the rules
2. Unfortunately Fama forgot a rule, which Popo pointed out
3. Fama acts the only way he can because of that
4. Huge complaining and resigning by Magicoz from the league because "the rules change all the time, are biased, blaa, blaa"
5. Jan points out, that the rule has been there all the time (point 1. proven)
6. Too shamed to admit, that didn't read the rules and already made a too big of a show for leaving, so can't turn back
7. Keep stubbornly hold of own opinions and try to save your face

And yeah, organizing anything in TS is a nightmare. No matter what you, you'll end up with shitstorm. TS folks are one of the most ungrateful people what comes to organizing anything.

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:37 am

olio wrote:It's no circus anymore, when the clowns have left.

Storyline of the Magicoz:
1. Didn't read the rules
2. Unfortunately Fama forgot a rule, which Popo pointed out
3. Fama acts the only way he can because of that
4. Huge complaining and resigning by Magicoz from the league because "the rules change all the time, are biased, blaa, blaa"
5. Jan points out, that the rule has been there all the time (point 1. proven)
6. Too shamed to admit, that didn't read the rules and already made a too big of a show for leaving, so can't turn back
7. Keep stubbornly hold of own opinions and try to save your face

1) I checked the rules after I heard about the "earn free points by not playing -extra feature" and noted they were edited at the given date.
2) It is possible, anything is. I have no details.
3) Would make sense.
4) We decided to leave the tournament OUR way, instead being ar**fked by the referees. After arranging and playing the games, we figured we were entitled atleast for that. Like it or not I really wouldn't care.
5) I don't see evidence.
6) Too ashamed? You really don't know much about me then

7) I'm stubborn, but it comes along with many other of my pleasant qualities of which I see no reason to englighten you about.

Yes I agree it may be frustrating to arrange things and not receiving "thank you's". I'm open to be proven wrong. But there hasn't been anything else but he says she says thus far. I've witheld from posting since it'd only fuel the flames and I don't want it to interfere with the fun & gaming some people might still be having. After everything, atleast there is some comedic aspects here since no-one showed up lastnight I heard

Post by **dede** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:53 pm

My cup, my rules. I may change them whenever I want if I think that's useful. People don't agree? We can discuss about possible solutions. Yeah, discuss. Not complaining like kids. Kids can organize their own cups and play them, not mine. Bye.

That's my phylosophy. Don't be too kind if you have to deal with people who just don't care. Just kick them out of your leagues and you'll live better than before.

It's an easy solution taken by several cup organizers. I've been banned from leagues for being too kid too, and now I agree with the decision (although I complained hard back then).

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:32 pm

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:37 pm

Announcement: Puna Semi-Finals/Final will both be played on Monday, 17th December(20:00 CET Time to start)!

Magico · Post by **Magico** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:23 am

Had talks with Fama last night and I believe him to be sincere.
Therefore, against my nature let this be an unrequested apology to Fama & Jan (not about making statement by dropping out, but for the claims of bias).
Seems I'm getting soft ha, or maybe he's just too nice of a guy.

Ps. The offer's there if you need warmup for the finals - I'll be around'ish

Fama · Post by **Fama** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:34 am

No worries Magico! I'm glad that you recognize it

We've already talked about this so let's move on because tomorrow it will be better. That's a good attitude from you despite all.

A bit late now that your team have already resigned from the cup but I'm sure that we'll be glad to have magicos+arsen for a good warmup before the finals!

Cheers