TSM SUMMER TOCA TOURNAMENT

[wazaari]

2. Wazaari: startplace 1 - bad and very unlucky start, unsafe race but happy end

End was not so happy, i m not satisfied of how i raced second half of race!!
I m sure i was faster than Sico, but Damage to to personal errors and other's bumps did the rest!!!

- missed to accelerate as early as at least 4 drivers behind him...and lost the start to Sicofonia very soon. Due to Mouse braking too late, he got a push by Riccardo (lost 1-2 positions) and due to wolf not or only very late braking in the first U-turn he even got a 2nd push by Riccardo and found himself in last position.

True....

From 1st to 8th he did not loose his motivation...and after 1 lap he found himself already back to the first places.

After 1st curve i was more motivated than start....so i did a perfect race in laps 1-10...

Unfortunately his 1st pitstop was very unlucky. In the entrance he slowed down, maybe trying to fill fuel as soon as possible, but soon he had to realize that he is blocking other people with that action: in this case he blocked Celta who came with full speed and drove right into the back of wazaari. Then, after wazaari filled a bit more than 90% fuel and Celta 2% less, Celta started and tried to pass wazaari in the pit. Unfortunately Celta drove tight into wazaari instead of passing him - so waazari, who maybe wanted to fill more fuel, was forced to decide quick: should i brake and fill more fuel or should i drive with fuel for 10 laps only (instead of 11)?
2 mistakes, 1 big one by wazaari and 1 average one by Celta, which should be avoided.

Uhm....this needs a little more to be explained!!
I wanted to fuel 92%...my tattic has been tested lots of times so i had clear ideas....
The problem is that once again my up arrow of my keaboard TILTED so i couldn t decellerate....i was forced to brake and i blocked celta....after pushing 1000 time per seconds up arrow it worked again so i managed to end my pit.
After it sico had too much advantage...and i was little nerved because of my keyboards problems ONCE AGAIN!!!!



Summer:
i recieved at least 3 negative actions (as mike said).
i did at least 1 negative action (due to keyboards problems).
i let pass drivers when they crashed on me.
no one let me pass when they crashed on me.

What must be done?
1 Make some better rule for gentleman rules....like...is compulsory or not letting pass someone if he crash on you??? and....what it will be penalisations????

2 Write all penalisations for each bad actions (blocking = -1point, bw=-5 points etc) so people will know what will happened if they do something wrong

3 Think for a better solution for pit.
Now u have 10 laps...but only last 2-3 laps are good for a good lap due to Fuel!!!
moreover damage on could complicate all (i recieved 2 bumps during 1st lap of qualify and lost more than 10% of damage....quite nervy)

My suggestion:
If u want to keep damage and fuel on for qualify i suggest to able /startfuel option so we can have more attemps

Otherwise 5 laps with ghost on(or off also) and fuel and damage off can garantee a nice qualify

[Mike Nike]

Merci, Jeffrey

But...why the flying start system was a disaster?
Still chaos in the first lap or: short after the startline after 1 lap?
Well, anyway...i forgot to mention one thing before: what do you (now) think about my damage suggestions i made a few days ago?
These were: higher wall hit effect compared to car hit effect and generally higher hit effect - but this is not that necessary. More important in my opinion: setting the limit closer to 1, when damage gets activated.
slowdownlimit default 0,5 it is, i guess.
If all other settings would keep the same, this limit should be between 0,95 and 1.00 maybe. Someone who crashed at least 3 times in 10 laps had maybe less than 95% energy. So: we should not keep it so small, like 50% - else no one will ever stop due to many crashs anyway.

I wonder by the way, how good or bad Celta's connection was and if we should take care in the settings about the disadvantages he has got (high ping - warpy other cars - hard to overtake = easier to collide when trying to overtake...).

[wazaari]

I don t think fly start is a good idea too.
or....
It is a good idea but u can t realise it.
With 10 drivers guess what would happen if one of them crashes during 1st lap...
That sistem need experience and maturity...i don t think it can work!!
Anyaway trying doesn t cost anything...

[Jeffrey]

I read all you suggestions.

I'll think over and do what is best.

For sure something must be done to improve qualification.


(This is what we use in our local championship but for sure will not be adopted in this championship). We have two groups Group A and Group B. Group B are the last 8 in champ and Group A the first 8. They have 7 mins of fuel. We start al lfrom grid. Group A enters pits waiting for group B to finish. When group B finish fuel and enter pit, Group A goes out for another 7 min qual. It works wonders.

[Mouse]

Hey mike i guess you did not see me in the final laps?? I was right behind Sico (tapping his bumper) but i had to pit for fuel, i only had 1 lap of fuel left but i needed 3 laps. I could have won it. Not sure if would have been able to pass, but it would have been something huh? Not really acceptable for me though, Mike, when i had a nice chance for a win. I am rather angry at myself for messing up my fuel strategy...had to make changes to my strategy early because of lots of damage.

Nice comments Mike!

About quali, i think splitting the field may be nice, but it could cause confusion to some, one mistake bya driver could ruin the session. I have an idea:
When quali starts, the person who won the previous race will drive out first, then 2nd of the previous race, 3rd, 4th ect...... All drivers will be spread out on the track, with the "fastest" in front, so he wont need to pass a "slower" driver. Just an idea though....more laps would be nice too.

The start was too rough, but there was really on way to avoid it. You can try not to hit the guy in front, but you must try not to get hit from behind, 1 mistake from 1 driver can push many cars, like a domino effect. I dont know of another way to start a race.

More of my thoughts to come....

[-wolf-]

i didnt read all the posts, besides mike nike's about me. mike nike is right. i was trying to let em pass but i dont have much exp in cups like this so i made mistakes. guys, tell me if there is something important i shall read of these messages after mike nikes you posted.

[Jeffrey]

In TSM website i've added a section RULES. (Under Tournaments).
Take note. More to be added.

NEXT RACE MONDAY 7th AUGUST.


CHANGES IN QUALIFICATION
FUEL and DAMAGE still ON
FUEL SAME AS RACE
LAPS 15 instead of 10.
SET FUEL WILL BE ON
GHOST OFF (ON is not realistic)

RACE SETTINGS and CHANGES

LAPS 50 instead of 40 (track a bit shorter)
FUEL 300 (same as last race)

[wazaari]

In TSM website i've added a section RULES. (Under Tournaments).
Take note. More to be added.

NEXT RACE MONDAY 7th AUGUST.


CHANGES IN QUALIFICATION
FUEL and DAMAGE still ON
FUEL SAME AS RACE
LAPS 15 instead of 10.
SET FUEL WILL BE ON
GHOST OFF (ON is not realistic)

RACE SETTINGS and CHANGES

LAPS 50 instead of 40 (track a bit shorter)
FUEL 300 (same as last race)

argh....
I thought 10 laps were too much for qualify....
15 are really a lot....

[Mouse]

Waza thats because you got pole!

I think many drivers have different thoughts about the number of laps. I got stuck behind drivers for 75% of that quali, my only really free lap was my last one, when i got 3rd. The next track is going to be even harder, because it is much shorter (about 5 seconds).

Though, i must say, it was a very fun quali, the most fun in a qualifying session i have ever had. Damage and fuel on makes it realistic, its fun!

And now we get to set startfuel, some im sure will set to about 30% and go for pole, then pit for 30% again and have another go at a fast time. It will be fun

[Mouse]

About a new start style:
In the next race, we must start normally of course, it is too late to decide a new style now (18 hours from the race).

Mike's idea of a flying start could work, but in a past experience with a flying start, it did not work so well.

A possible solution is to manually set the grid:

All cars are single file on the start straight, each with one car length between each other. The front 2 cars are next ot each other, whoever has poll goes first. When the leader takes off, all the rest can then take off, into a single file start. The reason for having the front 2 cars next to each other, is so when the leader takes off, he wont have an unfair start on the rest.

Dunno if this sounds to complicated or not, but it could work.

In a past NASCAR race we tried to have a flying start, it was a mess. If one car goes too fast or too slow, it throws the rest of the drivers off.

Jeffrey, a good thing to do is to schedule a test session. Ask all drivers to be there (only need about 8 for a good test). Then we can test new start types. If none work, we can practice normal starts, and make them cleaner.

[-wolf-]

am i kicked?

[Mouse]

About the 10x% rule, this will be nice. I think either 105%-107% is good.
Example: (usung Torrington)

Pole Time - 26.220 /// 105% - 27.531
Pole Time - 26.220 /// 106% - 27.793
Pole Time - 26.220 /// 107% - 28.055

It will be good, make sure all have practiced for the race, and that there will be no roadblocks.

Dunno why this cannot start tomorrow, it is not something that needs to be learned or practiced for really. Either way, whenever it starts it will be nice.

[-wolf-]

put 107% on because i think i wouldnt be able to keep up on 105 percent of the fatest lap.

[Mouse]

lol....the point of the rule is to make sure all can keep up with leaders. If we make it so anyone can pass, whats the point? 107 seems too easy 106 or even 105 is better.

[wazaari]

put 107% on because i think i wouldnt be able to keep up on 105 percent of the fatest lap.

or we can say don t use this stupid rule!!
I don t know if jeffrey really want to use it but if it will be used it will be cleary done to damage 1 player (which is a really bad thing)
Instead of putting stupid rules just teach to unexpert pilots how to let pass others without making caos!!!

If this rule will be used today and someone will not be qualified i ll leave too!

If u guys instead think that it is a good rule everyone should express his opinion and then jeff will keep better decision!!
Jeff is leader and i will respect all his decision but i ll contrast all others actions whose aim is damaging others players.

We play for fun, not to win.
Fun must be for all!

Regards,
waz

[dede]

107% will be too hard, and not only for one driver, believe me.. Let's see what happens in today's race.

[Mouse]

Waza, the idea came from Jeffrey, i was talking to him a few days back, also, you were the first one to come up with this idea i thought?

From TS Server -
"Message: <[GPOR] Mouse> any Toca news?
Message: <Jeffrey-TSM> No
Message: <Jeffrey-TSM> ah yes i forgot
Message: <Jeffrey-TSM> Waz..mentioned the 107% rule
Message: <Jeffrey-TSM> like f1"

It is not such a bad idea, anyone should be able to make the time, but it is to keep out the ones who do not train for the race. I dont want to drive laps around someone, who decided to make their first laps in the warm up.

And for tomorrow, say the pole time is 26.200, the time would be a 28.034. I think drivers can beat that. Also the one driver you talked of, is geting 27.1s.

Indeed this cup is fun for all, but i would like not to be frustrated during a race, that takes away the fun.

Anyway, i guess the rule will not take part today. Dunno if it even will start next week now. Many people were complaining about wolf, the thought was "ok he must be kicked" but this is a way to let him race, he just needs to train (as he has done, and is doing much better for this race!).

See ya is a few hours!

EDIT - also, the reson i posted about this rule was to see what others thought of it, so jeff can decide about it.

[dede]

Hmm, maybe Jef was wrong: I mentioned the rule, not waza. But I also said that 107% could be a bit hard for players. Today's race was pretty ok: actually i got a block from wolf only one time (he wanted to let me pass after a curve, but he was too slow driving it), for the rest it was pretty ok. If wolf continues like this, there are no problems for me letting him play.

[Mouse]

Wolf did better than the other races. He does need to let leaders pass much earlier though, before they are near him. Today i was folowing him (near the botom right big u turn) and he stayed in front of me, i had no choice but to push him out of the way, while entering the chicaine, Waza was chasing me, so i could not lose time.

I had no other problems, i was blocked by Riccardo while entering the small u turn at the top middle of the track, but just as i was passing he pulled off the track, i suppose he was distracted by his son. Not a problem in this case of course.

28.053 was wolf's quali time, if the % rule was on today, at 105%, he would not have qualified. If it was at 108%, he would have passed, but only by xx.05x. 108% seems to be the best number, today wolf seemed to keep more pace with all, and it was nice.

Though Jeffrey, if you would please have the officials look over Mike and Dede's cars, that would be good, i think they have some sort of illegal spoiler on their cars or something, mabye some sort of sticky tires mabye....either way disqualify them so i win........

.........

By the way guys, i talked to Jeffrey, and he is going to take out Oulton Park and replace it with another of my tracks. It will be the same style as Torrington, which i am very happy to hear you all like!!! If you go in the Tracks section of this forum, and look at my "Track Voting" topic, there is a picture of 4 tracks. I am working on track number 1, now you have an idea of what it will look like. The track will be raced on in 4 weeks, but i plan on having it finished by this week, it will be up for download as soon as it is finished.

Tonight i will post Season Standings, Driver Stats and the Race Graph.

Later this week i will post the 3rd video.

[-wolf-]

well it was an accident about my low qual time. I could quietly get 27.3xx i just did work hard much. i was thinking...nah i always have another lap to make it to 27 secs but then qual suddenly ended and i was really disappointed.

[Mouse]

You mean, you could have goten a 27, but you decided to wait for the end to get it? Or did you take your time trying to get it? Sounds odd.

I got my best lap on my first flying lap. Lap 1 - let everyone go and drive around alone. Lap 2 - i got my time. Actually, it is my personal best, i did not train much for fast laps, so it was a bit of a suprise!

[-wolf-]

never mind... i just didnt look at the lap number. i always though there are enough laps so maybe on the next lap ill ride fatser or something. whatever. its in the past.

[Mouse]

I see. I was actually going to pull off sfter i made my lap so early, figured i could not beat it. I kept going though.....should have pulled off as i did not beat it.

[Jeffrey]

Yes the 107% rule was mentioned to me by Dede and not Waza. Sorry for that but when i told that to mouse i forgot who mentioned that rule for me.


Now my opinion about that rules is 'I don't know". For me it makes no difference, although i could be one of the drivers to be left out. But that is not a problem at all. I would try to find some time during week to train more.

I leave this 107 rule in your hands, to discuss.

I think that Wolf made improvement. He was quite fast last race. Most of you are fast drivers and maybe never experienced the difficulty/tension you have in race when you are a slower driver.When i drive with you guys, my mind is not to catch/pass the driver ahead of me, but to let faster cars pass. Its very tough cause to be 95% fair you have never chance to overpass the next driver in front of you.

But anyway its part of the game. And i like to be fair.

[dede]

Ok, I've to admit that I suggested this rule in order to let play wolf only if he had a good speed during the race. Now I think it's not required anymore. People can be slow and fair (let pass while being lapped) -> there are really no problems. So I think the problem are unfair players, or the ones that aren't able to let pass while being lapped. In these cases I think that the disciplinary commission should punish them (kicking them for xy races or for the whole season). Actually I have no unfair actions to be reported (well, maybe 1-2), so I don't think it's enough to kick players. If actions like that are repeated every race for 5-6 times/race and the protagonist is always the same driver, a decision should be taken. But, as I said, I don't think this happened (at least in the last race, at least with me).