It may be that future game versions have some kind of integrated PunaBall support. At first, it would probably be something very simple, but if you want to help, I would like to hear some comments from regular players.
I was thinking that at first, it would work like this:
* You make a track PunaBall track by adding line SoccerTrack to its trk file. There must be at least three control points, one for center line and one for both goal lines. (And preferably more lines to make it impossible to complete laps).
* Server can define PunaBall related options in sliders.ini and they become active if a soccer track is played. Options include max time and/or max goals (with possibly an option to need a certain difference). One can also define ball to be used.
* When a soccer track is played, players are automatically put in start positions and ball is automatically added as a "player". When a goal is scored, a message is displayed (with scorer and passer). After a few seconds, players and ball are put back to starting position. When the game end, final score is told.
Here are some questions:
* What is the current "official" track? Would it be possible to have 640 x 400 track or is that not enough? Would it be good to force fit-in-screen always when playing Punaball?
* What is the current "official" ball?
* Should the server automatically put the players to have the same colors in the same team? (There could maybe be a different stripe that could be derived from the original color.)
* Any ideas how to easily form teams? One way would be that server randomly puts players in different teams but that there would be a command like "/team 1" which one could use to change team.
PunaBall support
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SoccerTrack sounds already very nice. But due to a special reason, maybe BallTrack or BallgameTrack or something like this would work too...* You make a track PunaBall track by adding line SoccerTrack to its trk file. There must be at least three control points, one for center line and one for both goal lines. (And preferably more lines to make it impossible to complete laps).
Auto Start Positions -> that would be nice, but on the other hand, depending on the game, they might be different.* When a soccer track is played, players are automatically put in start positions and ball is automatically added as a "player". When a goal is scored, a message is displayed (with scorer and passer). After a few seconds, players and ball are put back to starting position. When the game end, final score is told.
For example other soccer variantes than PunaBall or football and maybe rugby, basketball (in TS 1.00 with jumps a bit more soluteable), hockey or ice hockey etc.
But all these sports can be played also on the base of soccer equal rules.
Furthermore playing with 2 balls for fun should be still possible, just to mention it
(though this is happening only rarely) -> or just to allow other versions of sport genres.The score should be told of course also after each goal and if possible, even while game is running in the lower black rectangle.
In optimal case, even the goalgetters and the goaltime is showed, but maybe this can be just watched in TAB stats or another key -> additional stats.
Hmm...by the way, i see, soluting multiarenas with score support is not possible, i guess - but that's not really necessary ^^ - i just thought about village/city-tracks...
I think the tracksize should be very variable.* What is the current "official" track? Would it be possible to have 640 x 400 track or is that not enough? Would it be good to force fit-in-screen always when playing Punaball?
All sizes are offering different possibilites/strategies for the game, more or less. "Fit-in-screen always" is also maybe not good - though this might be a nice option in soccer settings or better: ballgame settings.
In addition a chat command /zoom <newzoom> before racestart would be nice, like you know...
The current "official" track and tracksize? When there is one "official" one, then it would be one from Punatiainen version of Soccer, but not sure, which he likes to call the default size. The rest of the soccer versions of other players are relative different, going from small 640x480 up to higher or equal sizes than the "Pu_Arena"'s.
Most people might say, ball3 it is, but the balltype should be variable of course. But since ball3 was in the near past the most used ball and PunaBall, or kind equal soccer variantes, the most played ballgame, the "default" ball might be based on this carfile. So, please make sure, in sliders.ini the carfile of the ball is changeable (also in ballgame settings ingame). Fasteddie called the ball in his TS 1.00 ice hockey version logically "puck" or "Puck". The puck is smaller, like the goals too...and i am not sure, if the default ballgame should be as big as the ball3.car or maybe a little bit smaller (2-4 pixel on each axe) - but not sure.* What is the current "official" ball?
Ah good, you mentioned the stripe solution* Should the server automatically put the players to have the same colors in the same team? (There could maybe be a different stripe that could be derived from the original color.)
United colors are surely nice, but a stripe of the real car color is in my opinion the advanced solution. You know normally, which car is yours easier... in situations of 3vs3 or 4vs4, when it is a bit laggy for example.
And it won't matter really much, if the team color would be equal to the real car color of a player.
So: yes, "autocoloring" would be nice - maybe even this would be a possible option in sliders.ini, though i think, the most people will agree that autocoloring is anyway the prefered option. Only in less cases, more than 2 colors (more than 2 teams) are wished. Like in arenas with 3 or 4 goals in each sky direction, for example - but this ballgame won't be solutable with TS ballgame support, due to checkline problems.
commands, like /team 1 and /team 2 would be very nice.* Any ideas how to easily form teams? One way would be that server randomly puts players in different teams but that there would be a command like "/team 1" which one could use to change team.
These commands have to be in chat though then...
But even new players should know easily how to select the team.
My suggestion would be maybe this:
When the trackpreview is there...then there is the track and a table.
The table would be like:
"Use left/right to switch to your team and accel to select or brake to unselect" (maybe accel/brake to select would be also good) -> but when selection is over? When all "selected" or after teamselect time (raceinit)? "Unselecting" might be not necessary, though...
|Team 1 | Spectator | Team 2|
|_______| Player1__|_______|
|_______| Player2__|_______|
| Player3|_________|_______|
|_______|_________| Player4|
Players in Team 1: 1
Players in Team 2: 1
Spectators: 2
Maybe in the cell, even the carimage would be shown, but not necessary.
"Team 1" and "Team 2", the text or even the complete row/column would be in the teamcolor of team 1 and 2.
An Option "Balanced Teams" should maybe exist on Ballgame - Autoservers, since surely statistics would be too much influenced by for example 3 vs 1 games^^
But even this might be allowed on certain autoservers...
So "Balanced Teams" would be a good option perhaps.
In addition, there should be maybe an option, which is selecting a team for the players in the spectator column automatically. This option ..."AutoSelect Team" or something... would be irrelevant if AllowSpectators is anyway 0 at the server - but since AllowSpectators is default 0, this is kind bad :/...
but spectators will exist only in rare cases in ballgames
A problem which is often occuring: players are currently away or something and miss the carselection - in this case: teamselection - so, they will miss to choice a team. My suggestion includes at least, that not connected or currently away persons are on default spectators (or auto selected team players), which might be no bad solution.
Another (small) (code-)problem is also the traffic, that is caused by choosing the teams.
Ok, i have no time anymore...i'm sure others have also other good suggestions or they like even my suggestion (hmm, my one looks a bit like teamselection in normal "vs game modes".
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fasteddie399
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Thanks sV!! 
Ande, all these ideas of making Turbo Sliders better support the Punaball phenomenon are awesome, and I think it's so cool that we players and track designers have this opportunity to have dialogue with the game's creator(s). It's not too common! Also kudos to Mike for more great feedback!
Like sV and Mike say, I have come up with a "TS Ice Hockey" track/game/mod, very similar to Punaball. In fact, all the "rules" are identical, except for the following:
1. The track graphics are different (i.e. a rink instead of a grass field)
2. The car used is one I made called the "AntiSkater"... it's identical to the AntiSlider in every way, except that it makes no skidmarks (very helpful on an off-white track surface)
3. The ball used is one I made, based on the "ball3" from Punaball, called "puck". It's almost the same as ball3 except it's black and glides a bit farther/smoother, and is also a LITTLE bit smaller.
4. The goals are smaller and are not at the edges of the track map. Like in real Ice Hockey, players can play behind each net.
I hope you have a chance to check it out sometime!
And, if for whatever reason you don't want to make special provisions for it like you plan to do for Punaball, I totally understand! Punaball has been around a while and has proven itself to be very popular, while my hockey idea has only been around about a day and a half.
If you want I can email the track and car files to you, just let me know.
Later!
Ande, all these ideas of making Turbo Sliders better support the Punaball phenomenon are awesome, and I think it's so cool that we players and track designers have this opportunity to have dialogue with the game's creator(s). It's not too common! Also kudos to Mike for more great feedback!
Like sV and Mike say, I have come up with a "TS Ice Hockey" track/game/mod, very similar to Punaball. In fact, all the "rules" are identical, except for the following:
1. The track graphics are different (i.e. a rink instead of a grass field)
2. The car used is one I made called the "AntiSkater"... it's identical to the AntiSlider in every way, except that it makes no skidmarks (very helpful on an off-white track surface)
3. The ball used is one I made, based on the "ball3" from Punaball, called "puck". It's almost the same as ball3 except it's black and glides a bit farther/smoother, and is also a LITTLE bit smaller.
4. The goals are smaller and are not at the edges of the track map. Like in real Ice Hockey, players can play behind each net.
I hope you have a chance to check it out sometime!
And, if for whatever reason you don't want to make special provisions for it like you plan to do for Punaball, I totally understand! Punaball has been around a while and has proven itself to be very popular, while my hockey idea has only been around about a day and a half.
If you want I can email the track and car files to you, just let me know.
Later!
Last edited by fasteddie399 on Mon May 16, 2005 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Many good ideas, yes . Track sizes, balls etc. will be changeable but I was thinking that it might be good to include one default track and ball.
All those GUI ideas etc. are nice but probably, the first implementation will be optimized for coding time and as everything will be compatible with 1.0.x, nothing very special will appear soon. One problem with coloring is that older TS versions can't get their original colors back after they have been changed by server. But I try to think of something or leave it for future versions.
. Track sizes, balls etc. will be changeable but I was thinking that it might be good to include one default track and ball. All those GUI ideas etc. are nice but probably, the first implementation will be optimized for coding time and as everything will be compatible with 1.0.x, nothing very special will appear soon. One problem with coloring is that older TS versions can't get their original colors back after they have been changed by server. But I try to think of something or leave it for future versions.
As ball and track can be easily changed, I think that everything should work with your hockey version, toofasteddie399 wrote: And, if for whatever reason you don't want to make special provisions for it like you plan to do for Punaball, I totally understand! Punaball has been around a while and has proven itself to be very popular, while my hockey idea has only been around about a day and a half.
. (Unless it is a big problem if there are references to "ball").-
fasteddie399
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With regards to colors, many players in recent Punaball (and hockey) games have made reference to an old "/color" command. If, like you say, no major changes are to be made soon (for compatibility reasons with 1.0.x), a "/color" command would prove VERY useful. Even if it was very simple, as in setting one color for the whole car (not the three colors like in the player config. screen). Perhaps even as simple as "/color red" or "/color green". This would be so helpful for players and server admins and would save a LOT of time before starting the game.
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
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fasteddie399
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Oh my! I'm blushing!!!TS Ice Hockey POPS, ROCKS & HEAVY METALS my socks off. It's awesome. Amazing work, Eddie.
Thank you Kobradog, it means a lot to hear that from a veteran TS/Puna player!! I'm glad you like it, and I'm glad it came out as good as I had hoped it would!
He shoots, he scores!!!!!!
Last edited by fasteddie399 on Mon May 16, 2005 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe this is not the very best place here, but maybe usefull too...for other players, who are creating arena backgrounds or own versions of ballgames.
The first soccer arena of Punatiainen had a wooden wall, which was bad - a half elastic wall is nice instead.
The current most known "PunaBall Arena" is surely the one with stone/road background, with elastic walls and in each corner a 45 degree wall. This diagonal wall offered nice passing tactics. And this i hope to see in other ballgame arenas too.
(fasteddie have to read this at least:)
Since i tested eddies arena a lot, i saw that his rounded "corners" in his ice hockey arena were actually nice looking, but it was almost impossible to shoot the puck into the corner in a way, that it comes back as "pass". Surely that way is normal in ice hockey, but the problem is, that no goal is falling...(or less goals in a certain time)
The first soccer arena of Punatiainen had a wooden wall, which was bad - a half elastic wall is nice instead.
The current most known "PunaBall Arena" is surely the one with stone/road background, with elastic walls and in each corner a 45 degree wall. This diagonal wall offered nice passing tactics. And this i hope to see in other ballgame arenas too.
(fasteddie have to read this at least:)
Since i tested eddies arena a lot, i saw that his rounded "corners" in his ice hockey arena were actually nice looking, but it was almost impossible to shoot the puck into the corner in a way, that it comes back as "pass". Surely that way is normal in ice hockey, but the problem is, that no goal is falling...(or less goals in a certain time)
Different game, different tactics.Mike Nike wrote:(fasteddie have to read this at least:)
Since i tested eddies arena a lot, i saw that his rounded "corners" in his ice hockey arena were actually nice looking, but it was almost impossible to shoot the puck into the corner in a way, that it comes back as "pass". Surely that way is normal in ice hockey, but the problem is, that no goal is falling...(or less goals in a certain time)
I mean, wouldn't it be boring if all the mods followed the same set of rules & design? (They wouldn't even be MODS then.)
I've tested PunaBall in the late past with circa 40 cars, default cars and from UFO to Frantic S all and AntiSlider had actually in combination with ball3 the bst soccer feeling. Slider cars were funny, but it's a different game to "AntiSlide" cars. Spinner though was due to its fast acceleration and steering no good car, where many goals are falling, since you cannot make good counterattacks or dribblings. Also the front of spinner does not allow easy dribbling anyway.
As default car i would give my vote to an AntiSlide Car with AntiSlider equal properties.
As default car i would give my vote to an AntiSlide Car with AntiSlider equal properties.
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captainpotato
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I'd like to see this for normal races as well, as it's hard enough at times to see one's own car when going into the first corner and there are several similarly-coloured cars. I've tried using the name option, but that gets too messy to be workable.Tap wrote:What I would like to see is some sort of highlight on your own car when playing punaball or hockey. It's easy to lose your own car when there are 3 almost identically coloured teammates on the field
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Punatiainen
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It's great to have support for Punaball. Thanks in advance.
Official track is pu_Arena8b and official ball is Ball3.
Both can be found from:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/punatia/Punaball.htm
Optimal size is 800 x 600. During the "years" it have proven to be best track-size for Pb. Fit-in-screen can be left as an option. It could be on or off. This isn't really not that urgent option at the moment, cause players can switch it themselves too.
I believe the support should be planned in a way, that the original format of Punaball wouldn't fade away. So, the idea of autoplacing players and ball after goal is good, but i still think it could be just an option, that serverside can define. Options in this case could be..
1) default, where players and ball are automatically placed in startingpositions
2) option, where the ball would not be autoplaced in the middle, but on the team's side of the pitch, which one has conceded a goal.
3) no autoplacing (original, and just in case if there are bugs)
One big issue would be the 'ball'. If it is possible to have the ball always on pb-games, without someone 'carrying' it into arena, could be great.
Printing the score somewhere in the corner could be nice indeed. Also, maybe some info into log-file, for instance, the time when the goals came.
And later could be nice to have the assisters and scorers info in logfile too. Not that important yet, though.
Usually games are played up to 10 goals with 2 goals difference. This should be the case in future too. But there could be options, for playing the game into 15 goals etc. Also, options, whether it is needed to win 2 rounds or maybe more, in order to win the game. After one round, there should be automatic sides switching (if autoplacing is on)
Time would be nice asset. Options could be..
1)Time-game, where game ends after certain period of time
2)Normal game, 10 goals to win with 2 diff
3)Mixed, so which one of these applies first is true
About teams, server could name the teams in ini-file, for example /team 1 Reds, /team 2 Greens. Then in the client-side, players could use the command /team 1 or /team Reds, and in that way, players could decide their team. If this is made, then also the default colors for the teams should be able to copied from players.dat -file to server-side ini-file. Or any colors should be possible. With this way, the server could also decide, how he wants team-member to differ from each other in colors.
Here was just something i quickly came up with
Cheers,
Punatiainen
Official track is pu_Arena8b and official ball is Ball3.
Both can be found from:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/punatia/Punaball.htm
Optimal size is 800 x 600. During the "years" it have proven to be best track-size for Pb. Fit-in-screen can be left as an option. It could be on or off. This isn't really not that urgent option at the moment, cause players can switch it themselves too.
I believe the support should be planned in a way, that the original format of Punaball wouldn't fade away. So, the idea of autoplacing players and ball after goal is good, but i still think it could be just an option, that serverside can define. Options in this case could be..
1) default, where players and ball are automatically placed in startingpositions
2) option, where the ball would not be autoplaced in the middle, but on the team's side of the pitch, which one has conceded a goal.
3) no autoplacing (original, and just in case if there are bugs)
One big issue would be the 'ball'. If it is possible to have the ball always on pb-games, without someone 'carrying' it into arena, could be great.
Printing the score somewhere in the corner could be nice indeed. Also, maybe some info into log-file, for instance, the time when the goals came.
And later could be nice to have the assisters and scorers info in logfile too. Not that important yet, though.
Usually games are played up to 10 goals with 2 goals difference. This should be the case in future too. But there could be options, for playing the game into 15 goals etc. Also, options, whether it is needed to win 2 rounds or maybe more, in order to win the game. After one round, there should be automatic sides switching (if autoplacing is on)
Time would be nice asset. Options could be..
1)Time-game, where game ends after certain period of time
2)Normal game, 10 goals to win with 2 diff
3)Mixed, so which one of these applies first is true
About teams, server could name the teams in ini-file, for example /team 1 Reds, /team 2 Greens. Then in the client-side, players could use the command /team 1 or /team Reds, and in that way, players could decide their team. If this is made, then also the default colors for the teams should be able to copied from players.dat -file to server-side ini-file. Or any colors should be possible. With this way, the server could also decide, how he wants team-member to differ from each other in colors.
Here was just something i quickly came up with
Cheers,
Punatiainen
Yes, yes, again such a long Mike Nike post
Dear forum members and guests, the main part is anyway just for Ande, but there are some things, which are maybe also interesting for you, so read it if you like and not if not...but don't worry about why i am talking so much again
I would even wish all of you would give also their opinions in a long detailled way for relative important parts of TS feature requests and support stuff etc...
At http://koti.mbnet.fi/punatia/Punaball.htm visible:
).
To the latest official rule 2 (and 3):
this shouldn't be forgotten in the support - maybe this can be an option...
at the start and after a goal ->
when both teams or when the opponent attacks to early, then maybe a boolean option can, if activated, reset the cars.
Since there will be also time based games, here 2 suggestions:
1) When a player of a team starts too early, that counts as a foul or something and 3 fouls would cause a goal for the other team -> reset of cars after a foul -> a solution, but not so advanaced. In this case, the clock should be maybe first run again, after the ball or a player is over the middle line, or something (a clockactivation checkline is needed, if all valid arenas are not symmetric in a certain way).
2) Just some lamps or ready/steady/go are defining a countdown like in a racestart - the early starters are just not accelerating then as punishment - the best solution maybe. But after a goal, the clock should still first run after the opponent may attack (in PunaBall: when the ball or 1 player of the team is crossing the middle line, then the enemy may attack the ball or the player and he can cross the middleline etc.).
By the way: i haven't even talked at my last post about enough logfile datas -> i was sure, Ande is needing it anyway to test his code
But of course, all needful datas should be in the log
-Game Start Time
-Server Settings (a lot: the normal server settings and the ballgame settings) -> teams (the playernames in the team or maybe even hashvalue of a player ? not necessary maybe - but for later statistic system, i won't like to see name fakers which are influencing statistics too much - hmm...too much theory which is causing that now...)
-> Score, Goalgetter, Assist, Time of Score must be surely in the settings
By the way: a goalsound and winsound of a round or game or whatever would be very nice, perhaps - but i think, you have planned at least a goalsound anyway. A reset sound or something would be also nice
By the way, Ande: how you define the player who made the assist and the goal?
With the easy variant:
goalgetter: last car which collided the ball
assist player: 2nd last car which collided the ball
?
This would allow "own goal" by ... and "own" assist by ... in the worst case!
Or are you making it, that own goals and own assists cannot exist? But the problem there would be: they can exist!
There are situations how an own goal is falling:
by pure purpose, by stupidness or just caused due to lags/warps etc.
but sometimes someone just wanted to clear the ball from the direction of the goal...and this can be detected...
When the ball's direction's line would cross the checkline of the goal, then it can be defined as goalshot (which can be also by the way a statistic in later versions, like car/ball collisions giving percentage of team/ball collisions of the whole game etc.).
So what you think about the suggestion, that: in the case team 1 player shoots on the goal (ball direction is the right one - though the ball's speed is maybe too low or the alluminium is only hit) and then a team 2 player collides the ball, but the ball is going still into the goal - then the goal scorer would be the team 1 player and it would be no own goal.
And in the case, the shoot would be calculated as not going into the goal, then it would be an own goal, if a team 2 player collides the ball.
But: experienced players will surely see now, that even this concept doesn't care about all cases...
since there exist in different arenas the possibility to shoot against walls, from which the ball goes into the goal -> or even a shoot against an opponent can be purpose in that way, that the opponent was used as wall or as moving possibility to collide the ball in front of the goal in a way, which is putting the ball into the goal...you know what i mean
What you all think about that?
When own goals are 100% own goals? When they are not, but when we may call it own goals in that case or can't we speak from own goals?
And: what about goals with no assists?
There can be just dribblings or 1vs1 games, where no pass has existed before.
By the way, Ande: what statistics would you like to include in addition?
You can define for each player complete match stats and from the match itself stats, like for example in addition: goal[1].shootdistance = track units.
Hmm, another statistics, which can be actually also interesting for nonghostraces in TS:
number of collides car/car. Car/Wall collides can be also interesting for guys like me ^^, but not necessary for the most people. Car/Ball would surely be interesting for a few or lot people, i think. Car/Car maybe too, or actually Car/OpponentCar (for example you can see, if a player is using blocktactics or something like that).
In the end of the match, next to normal match results of score, goalgetters and assist players, number of car/ball collides and number of goalshots of each player and each team would be maybe nice.
And what would be also nice: the time of the ball at the left/right side of the arena. On that way, it is a bit visible, how a team is making pressure at another or if one team is playing with the strategy of counter attacks.
Or the player coordinates can be saved, like recording is doing it anyway when enabled, and on this way statistics for each car (player) (and in sum for each team, too) can be saved, like: player 1 was in xy% of the time at the left side ...or player 1 was in average located "10% from left" or 40% left from the middle line or whatever (which would show for example, if teams are playing with a goalkeeper or a goalkeeper which is sometimes making attacks or just a defensive player or an offensive one).
And from the coordinates it can be calculated, how many track units a player has driven ("run") in the match. Or you take these datas from the input keys -> often accelerated (and broke) means then additional how many energy the car has invested, a bit like when you want to know how many fuel he needed
But from the length of track units in a certain time you see how "active" a player was on his position, too.
Hmm, i am sure, these ideas were not my last ones and i see something funny...
although i played already many soccer games on the pc and kind equal ideas which are mentioned here, are implemented there...i have 0% of my additional suggestions from these soccer games and kind 100% of my above ideas are taken from the possibilities, which the technical part of TS is offering.
Oh, and please think about: "PunaBall Support" is only one part of that what you are doing. It is resulting from the general ballgame support, the TS code will offer. I can imagine, maybe the very most players prefer PunaBall equal games as TS modification. But i want to relativate, that PunaBall is still only 1 version of the idea, people since early TS 0.x had, of playing ball/soccer with 2 goals on a playingfield. The idea certain people had and Punatiainen let me being part of the 1st online session of playing his variant "PunaBall" on one his first playgrounds, which had grassstripes and wooden walls - and a parking place, which i loved
The grey road street style playground was maybe the easiest background to play at, including the elastic walls. That is in my opinion the combination of an arena, which is giving PunaBall the best image in my opinion.
PunaBall is abstract to see as soccer variant, but with the relative full permission of doing tactical fouls, like in football. In comparision to real racing, here blocks and pushes (checking in ice hockey sometimes;)) was allowed by nearly every player...so far. So, a nice pass was often equal to a nice block to give a teammember a better chance to score a goal in a special situation. Surely there are situations, where blocks and pushs can nerv a player, but what would be without the free option to push and block there? Surely, it is possible to play 100% without tactical blocks and actually many people are doing that - it makes also here and there more fun, not to be slowed down by an opponent (by a teammate it is even demotivating ). But i think, it should be still allowed - at least in PunaBall, since that is a main part, what is making PunaBall different to Soccer - it is giving PunaBall the image of a rough soccer with risks or fouls like in football...
So, in a version of TS soccer or else said: in a version of the TS ballgame platform: what do you think about a "foul-detection" for coming more near to a version of real soccer (but still in an arena with walls, of course)?
In my opinion, it is not necessary at all, since it might be not wanted by the very most players, or? In addition, fould-detection is maybe too hard solutable - it is - but at which detection system we would agree then?
The advantage would then to have freekicks or penalties, what would be nice in my opinion...for soccer fans or ice hockey fans or hockey or whatever ballgame you like. Tthough in these cases also xy track units difference must exist between ball and opponents at free kicks and the disadvantage would be to make perhaps difference between ballgame versions, since a penalty in ice hockey is not equal to a soccer freekick.
Or Ande, do you think about making Support only for special modifications instead of creating a plattform, which allows more possibilities? Surely, ice hockey, soccer in and out of an arena, football and many other sport genres can be soluted in Turbo Sliders, but all of that might work in a relative abstract form in the hopefully soon coming TS ballgame support, too - which would be maybe enough anyway. But: i think, relative less possibilites than certain PunaBall or TS Soccer versions will be played anyway for long time.
But back to some other things again...
In the near past, real soccer or football backround in a green color were made - surely nice to play at and it gives it a better soccer feeling or in case of backgrounds with yard lines it is giving football or even rugby feeling -> these parts of TS Soccer variantes, how i like to call them, are surely nice for the eye, but i and others could still play better at a background with only 1 color, which is relative difference to car and ball colors.
By the way, eddie: your ice hockey stadium with the design on the ice is great, with the cars and the logos, great work! Half circle with red/green colors, where team sides are cleared...good old school slider big in the middle, 4 rest default cars placed small around...very nice
Ok, now i talked a bit much again, sorry, but that was necessary
Dear forum members and guests, the main part is anyway just for Ande, but there are some things, which are maybe also interesting for you, so read it if you like and not if not...but don't worry about why i am talking so much again
I would even wish all of you would give also their opinions in a long detailled way for relative important parts of TS feature requests and support stuff etc...
At http://koti.mbnet.fi/punatia/Punaball.htm visible:
What you think about starting a vote? I think, TS is not helped optimal with including default PunaBall settings for Soccer Support - which would then be compareable "PunaBall Support" of the latest official PB rules (before the rules above, for example games were just played in 1 round until 10, no goals difference - and the very first games were going only to 5 or 3Punaball official Rules (2 vs 2):
1. Matches are played up to 10 goals with two goals difference in order to win.
2. First kick-off will be made while the ball is in the center of the field and players at their goal-lines. Then the server starts the countdown and when finished the ball is free to play for both teams.
3. Forthcoming kick-offs are made by team which has conceded a goal. Kick-off is taken by their own half of the pitch. Other team can intercept when the ball or oppositionplayer has crossed the halfline. If other team intercepts before that, kick-off will be retaken.
).To the latest official rule 2 (and 3):
this shouldn't be forgotten in the support - maybe this can be an option...
at the start and after a goal ->
when both teams or when the opponent attacks to early, then maybe a boolean option can, if activated, reset the cars.
Since there will be also time based games, here 2 suggestions:
1) When a player of a team starts too early, that counts as a foul or something and 3 fouls would cause a goal for the other team -> reset of cars after a foul -> a solution, but not so advanaced. In this case, the clock should be maybe first run again, after the ball or a player is over the middle line, or something (a clockactivation checkline is needed, if all valid arenas are not symmetric in a certain way).
2) Just some lamps or ready/steady/go are defining a countdown like in a racestart - the early starters are just not accelerating then as punishment - the best solution maybe. But after a goal, the clock should still first run after the opponent may attack (in PunaBall: when the ball or 1 player of the team is crossing the middle line, then the enemy may attack the ball or the player and he can cross the middleline etc.).
By the way: i haven't even talked at my last post about enough logfile datas -> i was sure, Ande is needing it anyway to test his code
But of course, all needful datas should be in the log
-Game Start Time
-Server Settings (a lot
: the normal server settings and the ballgame settings) -> teams (the playernames in the team or maybe even hashvalue of a player ? not necessary maybe - but for later statistic system, i won't like to see name fakers which are influencing statistics too much - hmm...too much theory which is causing that now...)-> Score, Goalgetter, Assist, Time of Score must be surely in the settings
By the way: a goalsound and winsound of a round or game or whatever would be very nice, perhaps - but i think, you have planned at least a goalsound anyway. A reset sound or something would be also nice
By the way, Ande: how you define the player who made the assist and the goal?
With the easy variant:
goalgetter: last car which collided the ball
assist player: 2nd last car which collided the ball
?
This would allow "own goal" by ... and "own" assist by ... in the worst case!
Or are you making it, that own goals and own assists cannot exist? But the problem there would be: they can exist!
There are situations how an own goal is falling:
by pure purpose, by stupidness
or just caused due to lags/warps etc.but sometimes someone just wanted to clear the ball from the direction of the goal...and this can be detected...
When the ball's direction's line would cross the checkline of the goal, then it can be defined as goalshot (which can be also by the way a statistic in later versions, like car/ball collisions giving percentage of team/ball collisions of the whole game etc.).
So what you think about the suggestion, that: in the case team 1 player shoots on the goal (ball direction is the right one - though the ball's speed is maybe too low or the alluminium is only hit) and then a team 2 player collides the ball, but the ball is going still into the goal - then the goal scorer would be the team 1 player and it would be no own goal.
And in the case, the shoot would be calculated as not going into the goal, then it would be an own goal, if a team 2 player collides the ball.
But: experienced players will surely see now, that even this concept doesn't care about all cases...
since there exist in different arenas the possibility to shoot against walls, from which the ball goes into the goal -> or even a shoot against an opponent can be purpose in that way, that the opponent was used as wall or as moving possibility to collide the ball in front of the goal in a way, which is putting the ball into the goal...you know what i mean
What you all think about that?
When own goals are 100% own goals? When they are not, but when we may call it own goals in that case or can't we speak from own goals?
And: what about goals with no assists?
There can be just dribblings or 1vs1 games, where no pass has existed before.
By the way, Ande: what statistics would you like to include in addition?
You can define for each player complete match stats and from the match itself stats, like for example in addition: goal[1].shootdistance = track units.
Hmm, another statistics, which can be actually also interesting for nonghostraces in TS:
number of collides car/car. Car/Wall collides can be also interesting for guys like me ^^, but not necessary for the most people. Car/Ball would surely be interesting for a few or lot people, i think. Car/Car maybe too, or actually Car/OpponentCar (for example you can see, if a player is using blocktactics or something like that).
In the end of the match, next to normal match results of score, goalgetters and assist players, number of car/ball collides and number of goalshots of each player and each team would be maybe nice.
And what would be also nice: the time of the ball at the left/right side of the arena. On that way, it is a bit visible, how a team is making pressure at another or if one team is playing with the strategy of counter attacks.
Or the player coordinates can be saved, like recording is doing it anyway when enabled, and on this way statistics for each car (player) (and in sum for each team, too) can be saved, like: player 1 was in xy% of the time at the left side ...or player 1 was in average located "10% from left" or 40% left from the middle line or whatever (which would show for example, if teams are playing with a goalkeeper or a goalkeeper which is sometimes making attacks or just a defensive player or an offensive one).
And from the coordinates it can be calculated, how many track units a player has driven ("run") in the match. Or you take these datas from the input keys -> often accelerated (and broke) means then additional how many energy the car has invested, a bit like when you want to know how many fuel he needed
But from the length of track units in a certain time you see how "active" a player was on his position, too.
Hmm, i am sure, these ideas were not my last ones and i see something funny...
although i played already many soccer games on the pc and kind equal ideas which are mentioned here, are implemented there...i have 0% of my additional suggestions from these soccer games and kind 100% of my above ideas are taken from the possibilities, which the technical part of TS is offering.
Oh, and please think about: "PunaBall Support" is only one part of that what you are doing. It is resulting from the general ballgame support, the TS code will offer. I can imagine, maybe the very most players prefer PunaBall equal games as TS modification. But i want to relativate, that PunaBall is still only 1 version of the idea, people since early TS 0.x had, of playing ball/soccer with 2 goals on a playingfield. The idea certain people had and Punatiainen let me being part of the 1st online session of playing his variant "PunaBall" on one his first playgrounds, which had grassstripes and wooden walls - and a parking place, which i loved
The grey road street style playground was maybe the easiest background to play at, including the elastic walls. That is in my opinion the combination of an arena, which is giving PunaBall the best image in my opinion.
PunaBall is abstract to see as soccer variant, but with the relative full permission of doing tactical fouls, like in football. In comparision to real racing, here blocks and pushes (checking in ice hockey sometimes;)) was allowed by nearly every player...so far. So, a nice pass was often equal to a nice block to give a teammember a better chance to score a goal in a special situation. Surely there are situations, where blocks and pushs can nerv a player, but what would be without the free option to push and block there
? Surely, it is possible to play 100% without tactical blocks and actually many people are doing that - it makes also here and there more fun, not to be slowed down by an opponent (by a teammate it is even demotivating ). But i think, it should be still allowed - at least in PunaBall, since that is a main part, what is making PunaBall different to Soccer - it is giving PunaBall the image of a rough soccer with risks or fouls like in football...So, in a version of TS soccer or else said: in a version of the TS ballgame platform: what do you think about a "foul-detection" for coming more near to a version of real soccer (but still in an arena with walls, of course
)?In my opinion, it is not necessary at all, since it might be not wanted by the very most players, or? In addition, fould-detection is maybe too hard solutable - it is - but at which detection system we would agree then?
The advantage would then to have freekicks or penalties, what would be nice in my opinion...for soccer fans or ice hockey fans or hockey or whatever ballgame you like
. Tthough in these cases also xy track units difference must exist between ball and opponents at free kicks and the disadvantage would be to make perhaps difference between ballgame versions, since a penalty in ice hockey is not equal to a soccer freekick.Or Ande, do you think about making Support only for special modifications instead of creating a plattform, which allows more possibilities? Surely, ice hockey, soccer in and out of an arena, football and many other sport genres can be soluted in Turbo Sliders, but all of that might work in a relative abstract form in the hopefully soon coming TS ballgame support, too - which would be maybe enough anyway. But: i think, relative less possibilites than certain PunaBall or TS Soccer versions will be played anyway for long time.
But back to some other things again...
In the near past, real soccer or football backround in a green color were made - surely nice to play at and it gives it a better soccer feeling or in case of backgrounds with yard lines it is giving football or even rugby feeling -> these parts of TS Soccer variantes, how i like to call them, are surely nice for the eye, but i and others could still play better at a background with only 1 color, which is relative difference to car and ball colors.
By the way, eddie: your ice hockey stadium with the design on the ice is great, with the cars and the logos, great work! Half circle with red/green colors, where team sides are cleared
...good old school slider big in the middle, 4 rest default cars placed small around...very nice Ok, now i talked a bit much again, sorry, but that was necessary
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fasteddie399
- Community User Level: 2
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:53 am
Thanks Mike for the compliments!
And in response to that, I have good news!
I reconfigured the corners, and they are now smooth 90 degree arcs
Also, i redrew the goal nets (the now have "netting"), no more sand with haybales to stop/slow the puck once in the net, I added red and green team benches (with red and green "players" on the benches), penalty box areas, and, more realistic grandstands.
I made custom tiles, one for the rink, and one for the nets. The pattern for the nets include the "sand" and "haybale" textures, so that when the puck enters the net it doesn't come flying back out so fast.
if you want to check this new "track" out before having a chance to play it on my server, you can download it here:
http://home.comcast.net/~fasteddie399/fe_rink.zip
fasteddie399
And in response to that, I have good news!
I reconfigured the corners, and they are now smooth 90 degree arcs
Also, i redrew the goal nets (the now have "netting"), no more sand with haybales to stop/slow the puck once in the net, I added red and green team benches (with red and green "players" on the benches), penalty box areas, and, more realistic grandstands.
I made custom tiles, one for the rink, and one for the nets. The pattern for the nets include the "sand" and "haybale" textures, so that when the puck enters the net it doesn't come flying back out so fast.
if you want to check this new "track" out before having a chance to play it on my server, you can download it here:
http://home.comcast.net/~fasteddie399/fe_rink.zip
fasteddie399
Thank you to all for the ideas.
As I have mentioned, the first version support will be experimental and somewhat hidden - there won't be very many options to change or anything special like detecting fouls. It is not even sure yet if there will be any default track or ball yet shipped with the game at first. If it seems to work and players like it, the support may be expanded and advertized more.
Starting positions will be fixed to certain places (maybe so that the ball is further away from the scorers) but of course, you can always play with old tracks (which have not been marked as PB tracks) if you prefer the old way. Ball is automatically added to the game. You can have max time and/or max goals (with certain difference). Goals will be informed at first only with messages but that way, they will go to the log, too.
There will probably be command /team 1 or /team 0 that can be used to change team. Server might also be able to put auto-adjust on. How colors will work is yet to be determined...
Scorer is decided by checking if a player of the scorer side has been one of the last few players to touch the ball. If there was a scorer, then it is seen if the previous ball toucher was also from the same side (and not the same player). If so, that is the passer.
As I have mentioned, the first version support will be experimental and somewhat hidden - there won't be very many options to change or anything special like detecting fouls. It is not even sure yet if there will be any default track or ball yet shipped with the game at first. If it seems to work and players like it, the support may be expanded and advertized more.
Starting positions will be fixed to certain places (maybe so that the ball is further away from the scorers) but of course, you can always play with old tracks (which have not been marked as PB tracks) if you prefer the old way. Ball is automatically added to the game. You can have max time and/or max goals (with certain difference). Goals will be informed at first only with messages but that way, they will go to the log, too.
There will probably be command /team 1 or /team 0 that can be used to change team. Server might also be able to put auto-adjust on. How colors will work is yet to be determined...
Scorer is decided by checking if a player of the scorer side has been one of the last few players to touch the ball. If there was a scorer, then it is seen if the previous ball toucher was also from the same side (and not the same player). If so, that is the passer.
no one remember my try to make an arena for "Demolition Derby?"
the rule are easy:
1) starting grid to go in arena
2) who it more hard win the crash
3) of course win the last player again not disable
4) disabling is allowed only after 10 oe 20 seconds to make all cars are in arena
here an example of the track JDD
here too is possible to have team "i think"
the rule are easy:
1) starting grid to go in arena
2) who it more hard win the crash
3) of course win the last player again not disable
4) disabling is allowed only after 10 oe 20 seconds to make all cars are in arena
here an example of the track JDD
here too is possible to have team "i think"
