TS centralised website (turbosliders.com) - Features Request

[Jarno]

Okey lets get this project go in some direction. Everyone who wants to help making this site or have some programming skills. Come to irc-channel #turbocentral in quakenet-network.

[Hengari]

Okey lets get this project go in some direction. Everyone who wants to help making this site or have some programming skills. Come to irc-channel #turbocentral in quakenet-network.

And for extra information: although dede "stopped" working for the new site I'm coding a track database and testing some CMS for "fun" and maybe to get this project also a little further.

[dede]

Did I say that I abandoned the project? I only said that it was in standby waiting for a discussion with Ande (that came tonight). That's all.
The project is still here. It was nice, btw, seeing how Hengari and Jarno wanted to continue anyway (this means that they have enough passion for this game - they are the guys TS needs), and it was interesting seeing how other guys behaved when they thought I was quitting the project.

[Hengari]

Did I say that I abandoned the project? I only said that it was in standby waiting for a discussion with Ande (that came tonight).

Your lines could be read as "I will not continue" and misunderstood.

..and it was interesting seeing how other guys behaved when they thought I was quitting the project.

People gave their ideas for the project and when they thought that all those went "for nothing" they felt betrayed. I can understand their feelings.

[Jeffrey]

I hope that Ande will give positive feedback when discussing matters with dede.


Hope that this project will be released and lets ALL try to make this game more popular.

[dede]

People gave their ideas for the project and when they thought that all those went "for nothing" they felt betrayed. I can understand their feelings.

Ok, I understand. But if I quit the project, as they thought, these things we discussed will help the ones that want to continue the project (like you and Jarno). I don't think that my work here on the forum is without meaning. As I said in my first post, I wasn't (and I'm not) sure if I will start/continue/end the project. I just planned my work and shared with you all my ideas. This could help anyways.

[Mouse]

I am wondering, really what exactly made you change your mind so fast? A few days ago you were totally ready to put in months of work, talking about the passion for the game, but you are not sure now? Im not saying this to insult you or anything, im just curious as to what was said to change your mind.

[mikko]

Did I say that I abandoned the project?

You gave a clear indication that you are not the strong leader who can be trusted to finalize this project. You should have first discussed the problems through with people you have demands from before putting them down and distributing negative information for the community.

Let's hope I'm wrong and you can finalize what you started.

[Jarno]

Hey guys... Lets make this community better by supporting other. Of course you can say your opinion and criticise but it is fair to criticise and insult others when you personally has done nothing? So lets all take same direction and help each others. Say your ideas and anything to help with this site-project. Thanks.

[dragonstar]

So I have insulted dede? I try to make myself clear.

my crazy project (crazy = an incredible amount of hours behind a PC only for passion). Maybe TS was just an hobby for you, and now you haven't time anymore due to your work. But what about the passion? There are many guys around the world that are waiting good news from you. I know that it's easy to say these things, and I know you probably have good motivations that don't allow you to build what we requested, but, man, the passion! Passion makes people crazy. Be crazy with us!

This really gives the idea that you are doing this for passion. Not for money, or something else, just for the game and the players. So when Ande or JGG don't support you like you want them to, you lose the passion? This is because you stopped (just stopped, not quitted) working with the project when "thinking it again".

Yep, let's say that this project with me leader will continue only if Ande wants to build the new demo mode and little other things.

This really doesn't improve the idea that you are doing this for passion.

Then I guess we come to the "insult part":

If he doesn't think that it's necessary doing those mods to the demo mode, I don't think that the new centralized website it's helpful.

Then you're just stupid.

I just say as I think about this. IMO it's really stupid to say that the centralized webpage doesn't help if we don't get the new demo mode. And to what you base your claim on?

So you never quitted from the project? If you like to f*** the spot (as we say in Finland, harsh translation), I never said that you quitted. I said "it seems to me that if things don't go like you want them to, you just hand it over". This doesn't mean that "you quit", it means that "for me it looks like you quit". Two different things.

Lets f*** the spot just a little bit more. Quote from another thread:

I have some ideas about it, but I want that the community decides directly the content and the structure of this website.

So if the community wants the site even without the new demo-mode, you would do it? Well, we already have the answer for this.

This is it for now. Don't know if I missed something, but if I did I'm sure you let me know.

but it is fair to criticise and insult others when you personally has done nothing?

Why can't I criticize if I think someone is wrong? Really, tell me. About insulting, I said dede is stupid because what he said was imo really stupid. What's wrong with that? If I want to insult someone, I really don't call him merely stupid. And people who can't make the site, what could they do (except to be part of the community and hope for the best)? I don't know for who this is, but personally I can say that if I just have the know-how, we would already have some kind of a central site (yep, I know, it's sooo easy to say that). And btw is it fair to give people false hope? By this I mean, who really didn't get the picture dede is going to do this? Or maybe I'm just stupid (very well possible).

Oh man, it took me over an hour and three beers to write this. I hope it was worth it. And I hope we'll get that site someday. No matter who makes it.

[mikko]

I think none has been insulted here. Everyone just wants that site so much that there are some hot feelings in the air. Personally I agree with what Jarno said and I am ready to take my criticism back. There is no question that dede is much more important person for the community than what I currently am (in particular if he continues). We should all be on the same side, so I suggest to stop the fight here and concentrate on the topic.

[dede]

Did I say in this topic I wanted to get money for the project? All what I thought was: maybe JGG could pay someone (a professional programmer) in order to make this website we need. But this depends on many many things, cause the project we want is very big. Now I know that they can't do that (or, at least, they can, but it's not a very good investiment if then the game doesn't sell -> no money back). So, if we want this, then the community has to build it.

And now about the thing I required to continue my project: in my opinion it was stupid (just to use the same words used in this topic) NOT building that demo version: we have to invest A LOT of work in this project, why Ande isn't doing the same implementing the new demo version? I didn't knew the right motivations (I just based that sentence on what Ande wrote here in the topic), now I do. Now I understand. Fine with me.

[Hatu]

All what I thought was: maybe JGG could pay someone (a professional programmer) in order to make this website we need. But this depends on many many things, cause the project we want is very big.

Right here. Advertising is going nowhere -__-

[dede]

Right here. Advertising is going nowhere -__-

I don't know how much has been invested advertising. But maybe at the same price it was possible to make a medium website with the same $$$.
Am I wrong?

[mikko]

One thing I'd like to see on the site, if it realizes, is a tutorial on how to drive with different cars. It could be demonstrated by using some track(s) with a lot a varieties as an example, graphically showing the best driving lines and braking points for each default car in one picture of the track. Written by some of the very fastest guys, such as record holders of the track(s), that could help newbies to advance quickly and become competitive.

[Jarno]

One thing I'd like to see on the site, if it realizes, is a tutorial on how to drive with different cars. It could be demonstrated by using some track(s) with a lot a varieties as an example, graphically showing the best driving lines and braking points for each default car in one picture of the track. Written by some of the very fastest guys, such as record holders of the track(s), that could help newbies to advance quickly and become competitive.

I could do this. No problem at all. Only problem is to convert recording videos some good looking video. And then just have to edit it.

[Hengari]

One thing I'd like to see on the site, if it realizes, is a tutorial on how to drive with different cars. It could be demonstrated by using some track(s) with a lot a varieties as an example, graphically showing the best driving lines and braking points for each default car in one picture of the track. Written by some of the very fastest guys, such as record holders of the track(s), that could help newbies to advance quickly and become competitive.

Hehe, that's more detailed request than what Dragonstar said. Something like that would be nice even for veteran players who just don't know what's the fast way to drive speeder/spinner and other cars.

Mike Nike is maybe the most detailed driver in TS so he could be the one to write that guide. I for example can't explain how to drive slider, it's just in the backbone to take the corners and let it roll. It's not so easy to explain things but some pictures and videos could be good.

[mikko]

I could do this. No problem at all. Only problem is to convert recording videos some good looking video. And then just have to edit it.

Great! Perhaps the work could be distributed amongst various experts like this:
Easy for Daft
Slider for Matti
Speeder for Tijny
Anti for Mike Nike
Spinner for Jarno

Or whoever is willing to do it. This is just one suggestion.

Something like that would be nice even for veteran players who just don't know what's the fast way to drive speeder/spinner and other cars.

Very true, indeed.

[dede]

Daft already did a tutorial on Ez: it's on TheDude forum.

[Creator]

I just checked back here to see how the project goes...

I missed out on this discussion for a few days and I'm not quite sure what happened. Last I remember I posted that we'll help out on however we can, like some php programming tasks and providing hosting. Then Dede posted thanks for support, I seem to remember. Now I'm reading that the project was dropped because Jollygood doesn't support it or TS or something. I don't have time to go over all messages right now, but this is pretty interesting turn of things, especially since I haven't been consulted on any support issues and nothing changed from Jollygood's point of view.

I guess this is what I meant by the importance of the leader for a project like this. What motivation do we have to give our support, potentially even pay for salaries of some people working on it, when it might be dropped by the people leading overnight?

And then advertising budgets... well we don't really have such things. We spend money on things sometimes but it's not like you could pay for a professional programmer to create a community site for TS and then expect to not lose money on it. You guys would be surprised to know how little we take home per game sale. Most of the money goes to the people who make the games, which is the way it should be. We're not a big corporate publishing organization. I'm basically running this biz just to help out people who make great games, and of course to offer people some entertainment by providing quality games.

Now, please, tell me what it is that Jollygood Games did or didn't do, that caused this project to be dropped? Some people seem to want to continue, which is great and I hope something will come out of it.

[Creator]

Sorry...


Due to Jollygood Games' support of Turbo Sliders (or lack of support, to put it better), I've become completely discouraged to have any involvement whatsoever with the game. Their inability to run a high-class, first-rate organization has finally disgusted me beyond hope. I wish Ande, and the game's remaining players well in the future, but as for me, the time has come where I no longer have any desire to be involved. Thanks a lot, JGG.

Good luck everyone else,

-Ed

I guess I should comment on this one:

1. This situation is why I want the actual TS central site running on our server and someone operated by us, so it won't go down when someone has a bad day.

2. The person who wrote this obviously has no idea of what Jollygood Games is, how we treat our game developers and what we've done to the game community. If high-class first rate organization means ripping developers off their money to make a big bank and then have a lot of money to spend on things, then yeah it's true we're not that. I can only say I'm happy that there are people who care about Turbo Sliders and who are giving their time to help build the community.

[dede]

Now I'm reading that the project was dropped because Jollygood doesn't support it or TS or something.

No, the project went in "standby" for 1 day because I wasn't sure about 2-3 things (not linked to JGG - I mentioned only Ande, and I contacted only him, as you can see). Now these 2-3 things are ok. Let's say that nothing bad happened and the project is still alive.

About the quote of ts-central's website it was a bit ironical: a good project can't die like that.

[mikko]

I’ve given some thoughts about the ranking system already suggested for the site (of course). Basically, I think there should be two separate ranking systems, one measuring competitiveness and the other pure speed. Competitiveness could be determined on the basis of specifically arranged cups. I would leave the PTX servers out of this; they should be a place where one could drive only for fun without rankings-related pressures. How this would be best done, I don’t know, perhaps something like Z’s ranking system could be used. But since I don’t remember too well how that worked, I’ll not touch that issue.

Concerning pure speed, that is pretty easy to measure in terms of best lap times. Converting the lap times to a ranking system is less straightforward, as the speed of drivers varies depending on car/track combination. The sum of best lap times of all tracks, as in the record server, is one way to do that. It’s major drawback is that it requires all tracks to be driven in order to get a ranking. Just consider if Tijny or Mike Nike would have driven all of the tracks except for one, they would get no ranking. Obviously, omitting one track would not (and should not) make anyone (significantly) worse driver. As a consequence, this system works pretty well so long as there are only a small number of tracks to be counted for the ranking system. This is not the case if the proposal to get ALL (really) tracks count in the ranking turns out successful, something which the new site could hopefully account for. The sum of best lap times would lost its meaning as hardly anyone would actually drive all tracks. Thus, none would get a ranking, a point which requires consideration of another ranking system. I’ll give my suggestion in the following:

The players would get points depending on their position on the track/car list (suggested previously by someone, can’t remember who right know). The first position in each list would earn 100 points, the second 99, and so on until the 100. position would be worth of 1 point. Points could be collected from all tracks/cars, even though all tracks/cars would not be of the same value. Concerning tracks, the standard tracks which come along with the game would be the most valuable (since they are naturally played the most). Points collected from those tracks would be multiplied by 3. The second group of tracks would be those on the PTX servers, points from which would be multiplied by 2. The points from all other tracks would not be multiplied. Concerning cars, the standard cars would all be of the same value, the points being multiplied by 2. The points from all other cars would not be multiplied. So, for example, a new record on a standard track with a standard car would be worth of 100 x 3 x 2 = 600 points.

All points would be summed up to form an overall ranking system. Sub-rankings of different cars could be obtained simultaneously.

Please, give your comments on both how you find the proposal and if it were technically possible.

[Mouse]

I could do this. No problem at all. Only problem is to convert recording videos some good looking video. And then just have to edit it.

Great! Perhaps the work could be distributed amongst various experts like this:
Easy for Daft
Slider for Matti
Speeder for Tijny
Anti for Mike Nike
Spinner for Jarno

Or whoever is willing to do it. This is just one suggestion.

Something like that would be nice even for veteran players who just don't know what's the fast way to drive speeder/spinner and other cars.

Very true, indeed.

You will also need a section that shows "How NOT to drive" - I can do that with ANY car!

I do like that idea - videos would be great for the site. Many how-to videos. And especially of all different mods - Puna, Battle, F1, Rally...... pretty much everything.

[dede]

Yeah mikko, something like that it's already on our to-do list. In order to avoid cheating we are thinking to dedicate a server to record hunting (few laps, ghost, car not fixed, not many tracks)..