MRO Tracks

vany · Post by **vany** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Hi

I'm admin of MRO http://www.miniracingonline.com, and I have noticed that almost one of your players (Jeffrey) is using here some parts of our circuits in an illegal way. We have a CC license that has an infringement by this person http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by- ... es/deed.en.

I hope you take the measures against this case as soon as posible.

Regards

Hengari · Post by **Hengari** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:36 pm

vany wrote:I have noticed that almost one of your players (Jeffrey) is using here some parts of our circuits in an illegal way. We have a CC license that has an infringement by this person .

Could you point out those tracks so that we (players) could also see which ones are infringing the CC license. I don't doubt your reasons to believe that there has been some misuse of track parts but it would be interesting to see how.

vany wrote:I hope you take the measures against this case as soon as posible.

This might be a stupid question but in a community based game, how would you take measures against some track maker which uses track parts that are not suitable to be used and whose tracks are not distributed in the game site? It's not like we make and drive tracks which infringe licenses. I really think that track makers should use only those graphics/parts which they are allowed to use but what can you do if someone doesn't follow the rules.

All we really could do (in my opinion which means nothing) is that we say "Don't use track parts which are not yours to use" and ask Jeffrey change the track. And when I say "we" I don't know who is that "we".

Maybe you should sent a message directly to Jeffrey, his site is at http://turboslidersmalta.com/ and there is an email address for contacts. Also if you look at Jeffreys user profile in this forum you see that there is an email address.

vany · Post by **vany** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:02 pm

Could you point out those tracks so that we (players) could also see which ones are infringing the CC license. I don't doubt your reasons to believe that there has been some misuse of track parts but it would be interesting to see how.

Beginning with this:

viewtopic.php?p=11900&highlight=#11900
viewtopic.php?p=8276&highlight=#8276

And I have seen that most of tracks at http://turboslidersmalta.com/ have some parts of our graphics... If you want I can make a complete list of all graphics stolen and used without permission.

As you might guess, I don't know how your game/community works, I entered and posted this in a friendly way to solve the conflict in any possible way. If you tell me that all responsability is of Jeffrey I will talk to him, no problem.

We had an incident similar to this on our community some time ago, and even we had no direct responsability on it, we deleted any graphic in the situation. I think that you might want that your community is free of any suspiction of copy/plagiarism..

Thx

vany · Post by **vany** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:41 pm

I found a really interesting post...

viewtopic.php?p=5088&highlight=#5088

Jeffrey wrote:Yes Mouse.

I asked for permission before using their images to show this new technique of making tracks.

I also have others track designers which are ready to design tracks for me to use them in TS.

I'm really waiting for your track pack

In this case Jeffrey uses circuits from us (entire Bahrein or Spa), without any permission, and player Mouse asks about it (permissions) and Jeffrey lies, he doesn't have any right of using our graphics.

Post by **dede** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:56 pm

I'm sure that Jeffrey and other players didn't want to break any copyright and/or steal your good work. As far as I know, Jeffrey plays MRO as well, and he just made some tests with those tracks. He didn't release any version of those tracks, did he? I remember I tested a track coming from MRO (don't know its name though). It was a private testing to see what size > 4000x4000 could do.
Anyway, thanks for informing us. I'm sure that Jeffrey will ask for permission before releasing any version of MRO tracks in the future (if there will ever be this possibility, since we have 2000x2000px limit for our tracks).

vany · Post by **vany** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:00 pm

The problem is that Jeffrey is now using part of our tracks in his own tracks in http://turboslidersmalta.com/. A lot of graphic elements are from our circuits..... not only for private test purposes..

Post by **dede** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Can you list all "tiles" he's using with copyright infringement? You know.. probably he didn't even notice of braking the copyright. And you can't even ask us to check for every screenshot a player posts, since we are all players and this is a free community (we have no control on trackmakers, we don't host any track directly). Maybe the best way to get this thing solved would be talking directly to Jeffrey. However, good to know your creations have that kind of copyright, so other players are informed as well.

dby · Post by **dby** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:02 am

I looked at the Anderstorp MRO track and some trucks and a helicopter looked suspiciously similar to some tiles by Jeffrey. The third track I made for TS was Anderstorp btw, only default TS tiles tho.

Copyright have been an issue before, but I guess there's not much to do about it except perhaps remove any copyright infringing links/pics from turbosliders.com. I know some of my graphics have been edited and reused without permission and without credits... I don't mind too much tho, bit annoying when it doesn't look as good as I intended.

Post by **Tijny** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:44 am

dede wrote:Can you list all "tiles" he's using with copyright infringement? You know.. probably he didn't even notice of braking the copyright.

If you ask me, Jeffrey knew darn well what he was doing. First he stole tracks and tiles from other games (not just MRO!) and then he publicly lied about it. So don't even try to make excuses for him, what he did is a serious case of plagiarism and nothing less.
I sincerely hope this will be resolved as soon as possible, for Jeffrey's sake as well as MRO's.

Punatiainen · Post by **Punatiainen** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:44 am

Default tiles rules! (sorry, i just had to say it)

Post by **dede** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Tijny wrote:If you ask me, Jeffrey knew darn well what he was doing. First he stole tracks and tiles from other games (not just MRO!)

I'm not saying that he didn't, but probably he wanted to create cool stuff for TS without noticing that those were under copyright. Anyway, this doesn't change anything.

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:52 pm

So, let me explain.

First of all i removed ALL "experimental" tracks from my site using MRO images.

As i explained in many threads, i wanted just to show/explain how TS tracks could be made using a jpeg image. MRO images are above 5000 by 5000 in size and TS only supports 2000 by 2000. I just used them for experimenting purposes. BUT as i said i removed them from my site/deleted them from my hard disk and will never show up again.

I am also an MRO player, and have friends from MRO. Some of them were ready to design a couple of 2000 by 2000 track images to be used in TS tracks. But anyways..

I appologise for any images used.

NOW all i have left are my TS tracks which use some of the images that are used in MRO tracks like trucks, a couple of cranes and buildings which most of them i got from MRO DESIGN.

http://miniracingonline.com/mrodesign_scn_veh.php

Personally i dont see anything wrong of using some of these images as tiles in my tracks. I am not doing any money from them. Just using some jpegs, edit them and use them as tiles.

BUT if no permission is granted to use these couple of tiles like trucks etc i'am ready to pull down all my remaining tracks from my site.

Jeffrey

vany · Post by **vany** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:41 pm

The main problem Jeffrey is that you used it without asking nobody in MRO, and most of all when they asked you about permission you lied....

The stuff in MRO Design is for MRO Track Design, as I said we have an CC license for the entire site http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.5/es/.

If you asked friendly about use the graphics of MRO here in TS the answer would have been positive for sure, we are an open community and collaboration is always wellcome in any sense. But the way you did it is absolutely innacceptable for us. So I have to ask you to retire any graphic that comes from the MRO site.

Thx for the answer.

I hope anybody understands our position, regards

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:58 pm

Vany. Its not that i lied. I have friends in MRO as well. I've been playing MRO since before i discovered TS. I have MRO friends which offered themselves to create tracks for me for use in TS and also gave me jpegs from their hard disk to use.

I used some track images just to explain the idea of having big tracks in TS, something which the game does not support and hink never will. But still i understand your point 100%

Now about the CC licence, most images i got before the CC licence. I've been playing MRO for a long time since no copyright disclaimers were available is site. But still i apologise.

So for now i will also remove all my original tracks which use some edited graphics/tiles from MRO. I will ask for permission in MRO FORUM.

Thanks and yes i understand your position.

My email is jefcam@euroweb.net.mt. Better continue our discussion privatly.

dby · Post by **dby** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:08 pm

FYI pretty much everything that is created/designed by someone is copyrighted to that person automatically, if it doesn't state otherwise. So the Creative Commons is actually more free than some random picture, since you're free to share it.

Sometimes you're allowed to borrow copyrighted stuff without permission, if your work turns out different enough to be considered a new work, like for collages or sampling in music. But if the theft is too obvious, you'd better get permission first or risk getting busted.

vany · Post by **vany** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:28 pm

Jeffrey please tell me who are the friends who gave you that graphics, I don't believe (I'm sure of it) that you have direct permission for using any circuit of the actual database of MRO (that you used in your own circuits).

With thw CC license we wanted anything but simply recognisement of the author in case you copy it, this case is bleeding, Jeffrey just copy&pasted some areas of circuits inside his, and even kept for himself the retribution of the creation....

I talked to Dede by msn and the question is quite clear for both of us. We don't want to cause any problem in TS. I would like to keep in touch with Dede to share ideas and knowledgements that can be good for both communities (MRO and TS).

Regards

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:43 pm

Yes vany you are 100% right i had no permission to use the track images for the tutorials/experimentation. I thought i was doing no harm to MRO by doing that. But still there are a couple of MRO Drivers who saw my powerpoint presentation about TS, enjoyed it and were happy to share graphics with me and design some mro like tracks for TS. But vany i don't think its worth mentioning their names.

I got you point, and I immediatly removed the MRO converted tracks.
I think that i part of the discussion closed.

Now regarding my TS TRACKS, where is use some of MRO TILES like trucks, buildings, cranes and so on...

May i ask this question. Can you pease tell me who is the creator of these two cranes? if you tell me the name i will ask immediatly for permission. I will go through all the small pieces i used and gently ask each for permission.

TurboSliders.com

MRO Tracks

MRO Tracks

Re: MRO Tracks