Full Contact: changing tracks pack

[Janne]

EDIT: (Well, maybe I just shut my mouth about this).

[iBlaze²]

Ok, looking at the voting it seems many players have voted for a change away from crazy tracks. Therefore, I will change the default setting to fun tracks later this afternoon.

About the new tracks - I will update the custom.play.newtracks.src as a temporary way of including them until the track packs are properly updated.


EDIT: Well apparently I won't be changing anything then since the server isn't available this afternoon. Urgh, absolutely nothing is going to plan today and I'm starting to get proper pissed with it. Should've just stayed in bed I reckon lol. I'll change it tomorrow if the server is back.

[Tijny]

I made a proposition for a possible new track pack, you can find it here.

I removed some of the more controversial ones, along with many tracks that I feel just don't meet the standard, either because of their poor quality or just because they aren't really suited for Full Contact. If you have any comments, requests or whatever, feel free.

[Janne]

I made a proposition for a possible new track pack, you can find it here.

Tracks I would definitely add from current crazy pack:

Dby-Pitstop_at_the_beach
J_Solmu
K-Gnite
VPA_SaariRatainen
[vimio]first
[vimio]kungbana

Tracks I would definitely remove from your proposal pack:

Jn_Waystreet
K-battle1 (lack of guidance arrows)
Sc_SweatRun

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. But it's just my opinion.

[Whiplash]

Remove these:
Checkpoints-Andy
CrazyIce-Anddru
Elimination_chamber-KePPaNa
J_PinBall-Jarno
Jn_Wheel-Janne (f*** you for this one )
K-8chamaber-Keppana
K-battle1-Keppana (wtf man)
K-Carnege-[fS]Keppana
K-makkara2-Keppana
K-minicrash-Keppana
K-monotov-Keppana
K-Speedtest-[fS]Keppana(too long, too stupid)
Mini-Craash-Anddru
Sc_SweatRun-Scud (real crap)
VPA_ShortRing-VanhaPuinenAuto (wasting a time)
WatchOut-Anddru


Probably these too:
Jn_Double-i-Janne
Jn_Icy chaos-Janne
Jn_Launcher-Janne
Jn_Mini04-Janne
Jn_Mini08-Janne
K-Boilingpoint-[fS]Keppana
K-Ice83-[fS]Keppana
K-Iced-[fS]Keppana
K-Kanuuna2b-[fS]Keppana (just too long)
K-Nightbeef-[fS]Keppana
K-offroad2-KePPaNa
K-penta2-Keppana
K-Rushroad-[fS]Keppana
K-Xmas-[fS]Keppana
Theknot-[Fok!]wasq (Edited by Sativa) (fix hash)
[vimio]8_Mate!_1_1-Speedo

Reasons: too long, too stupid, too short (combined with crossings) etc.

[Janne]

(...)

Wow, that would be 26 funny tracks gone.

K-Speedtest-[fS]Keppana(too long, too stupid)

Lap record 17.8s too long?

[Whiplash]

Wow, that would be 26 funny tracks gone.

That would be 26 more reasons for staying in the server.
Well, you and Kepp can always make some new tracks, but this time not that much funny please.

Lap record 17.8s too long?

And, tell me please, how many races you need to drive to get that clean lap?
I 'll tell you: billions (and it must be ghost race btw.)

[iBlaze²]

...

Lol, why not just remove the whole trackpack and leave the default ones only.

I'm joking obviously, but there are a lot of very good tracks in your list to remove. You may not like tracks with cross-overs, but there are far many more players who do.

I think we need to distinguish between full contact and normal rough here. For me, normal rough is fine to play on normal racing tracks or even normal fun tracks. Full contact on the other hand is another way of describing "extreme rough", which basically means it should use the most extreme tracks.

Of course, there are some bad tracks and ones which many players don't like which should be removed. There are also lots of new ones that could/should be added. But, in tidying up the trackpack, let's not forget the essence of what full contact is - extreme rough.

Tijny's list looks very good to me. I haven't had a complete run through of the ones I would remove or add yet, but I would certainly remove Sc_SweatRun as that confuses a lot of players. However, I would add Sc_GetLost instead - despite the name, that track is easy to find your way around and is also very fun.

[Janne]

Lap record 17.8s too long?

And, tell me please, how many races you need to drive to get that clean lap?
I 'll tell you: billions (and it must be ghost race btw.)

Why you should one drive 17.8s each race? Even with plenty of shit happening you get lap times between 20-30s, and that's no way too much.

[iBlaze²]

How long has that server been down btw? - I don't want to start thinking it was me who's f****d it up

[Whiplash]

Lol, why not just remove the whole trackpack and leave the default ones only.

Well, I would not say a word if I would like all these tracks. I would never even mention changing the tracks pack and, of course, I would never make this kind of topic. With 5-10 bad tracks there would be no problems for me at all.

I think we need to distinguish between full contact and normal rough here.

Yeah. Also, we need to distinguish between full contact and full shit; extreme tracks and extreme craps.

Even with plenty of shit happening you get lap times between 20-30s, and that's no way too much.

Obviously I don't like tracks where "plenty of shit are happening".

How long has that server been down btw? - I don't want to start thinking it was me who's f****d it up

It's been downs since yesterday night when Jenne went out from the EZ K.O. I think.

[Janne]

How long has that server been down btw? - I don't want to start thinking it was me who's f****d it up

Last night we were playing EasySlider K.O, and when I dropped out I some why couldn't rejoin anymore due to firewall/proxy message. Next step was that I tried to restart it by other way as server was manual. I think restart worked but I still couldn't join the server. By morning the server was also disappeared from server list.

Obviously I don't like tracks where "plenty of shit are happening".

Obviously I do like and obviously the track still isn't too long.

[iBlaze²]

I think we need to distinguish between full contact and normal rough here.

Yeah. Also, we need to distinguish between full contact and full shit; extreme tracks and extreme craps.

Ok, we get that you don't like full contact and the vote shows many players who agree that the default track pack should be changed to fun tracks instead of crazy. We've agreed to that and as soon as the server is back, I will do that.

However, you can't suggest to remove all of the extreme tracks used for full contact on the occasions that players do want to play that mode, simply because you don't like full contact - same as you wouldn't suggest to remove all of the XBumpz tracks that aren't a circle because you don't like XBumpz - or in my case, suggest to remove all of the punaball tracks without obstacles or backwards goals because I don't find them as fun.

Sometimes you just have to grin and bear the odd game/track you don't like and wait for the next one. And anyway, you should be happiest of all here, since the default track pack will no longer be crazy full contact tracks at all on the basis of this vote.

Last night we were playing EasySlider K.O, and when I dropped out I some why couldn't rejoin anymore due to firewall/proxy message. Next step was that I tried to restart it by other way as server was manual. I think restart worked but I still couldn't join the server. By morning the server was also disappeared from server list.

Hmm, sounds strange. Do you (or anybody else) have the server IP? I could try to connect via IP maybe and see what happens. At a complete guess I'd say the restart failed and the server is stuck in manual with master 0 and needs restarting - but that's just a guess. Unless anybody here has access to that /ssh tool mentioned in the admin section and can try to start it that way?

[Janne]

Hmm, sounds strange. Do you (or anybody else) have the server IP? I could try to connect via IP maybe and see what happens. At a complete guess I'd say the restart failed and the server is stuck in manual with master 0 and needs restarting - but that's just a guess. Unless anybody here has access to that /ssh tool mentioned in the admin section and can try to start it that way?

I have already tried to connect via IP, nothing happens. Besides, after restarting the server was still visible on server list with EasySlider K.O. title and races 0/10. It disappeared fully when I was sleeping.

[Tijny]

Thank you all for your comments. I must admit I didn't really spend too much time on this list, so I made some stupid choices. With your help we'll get there though.
I kind of agree with Janne and iBlaze, we should keep at least SOME of the craziest tracks; there are already way less of those in my pack than before.




Removed:
Sc_Sweatrun & k-battle1 (yeah yeah, poor choices)
Jn_Waystreet (trackmaker knows best)
K-minicrash (ok, I'll remove one more psychedelic bw track)
J_Swoplaa (traded for J_Solmu, this one is actually much worse and less fun)


Added:
J_Solmu
Sc_GetLost
VPA_SaariRatainen
[vimio]first
[vimio]kungbana
K-Gnite

Sometimes you just have to grin and bear the odd game/track you don't like and wait for the next one. And anyway, you should be happiest of all here, since the default track pack will no longer be crazy full contact tracks at all on the basis of this vote.

I thought we all agreed that the idea was to make a new default pack that combined fun and crazy tracks. I'm just not sure how seriously we should take the results of this poll, since I didn't see a single post here that said "YES! LET'S USE FUN TRACKS BY DEFAULT FROM NOW ON!"

Anyway, Any tracks from the 'Fun' category I should add?

[iBlaze²]

I thought we all agreed that the idea was to make a new default pack that combined fun and crazy tracks. I'm just not sure how seriously we should take the results of this poll, since I didn't see a single post here that said "YES! LET'S USE FUN TRACKS BY DEFAULT FROM NOW ON!"

Anyway, Any tracks from the 'Fun' category I should add?

Yes we did, I just thought your track pack was an amended pack of crazy tracks though since it didn't include any fun tracks (yet).

Using the fun pack is only a temporary 'fix' - but one which should make Whip and others happy. Although I do see your point about the vote.

I will have a proper look through my track collection and the database a bit later and find some more tracks for your list.

[Whiplash]

Ok, we get that you don't like full contact and the vote shows many players who agree that the default track pack should be changed to fun tracks instead of crazy. We've agreed to that and as soon as the server is back, I will do that.
However, you can't suggest to remove all of the extreme tracks used for full contact on the occasions that players do want to play that mode, simply because you don't like full contact - same as you wouldn't suggest to remove all of the XBumpz tracks that aren't a circle because you don't like XBumpz - or in my case, suggest to remove all of the punaball tracks without obstacles or backwards goals because I don't find them as fun.

Hmm, that's not correct view of all that, but I 'll not comment it all again and again. I play Full Contact more often then most of players, so it speaks enough.
All in all, I want to respect all other thoughts, especially of those guys who play there often too like Janne, Keppana, Matti etc. Also, they play this game much longer then me, so it is not right that my opinion be the most important thing in all this. I just don't want to feel like i'm wasting my time playing some babyish tracks.
True, I am happy with removing even those few tracks and I hope that you will add a lot of great new tracks too.
Keep in mind that the server is not always full, and attempt to predict which tracks will be fun with 2-3 players too which often happens.

[Pingu]

Remove these:
"Insert massive list of good tracks here"
Reasons: too long, too stupid, too short (combined with crossings) etc.

Dude many of these tracks are really cool! Speedtest is one of my fav tracks.

Btw the best Track of Tijyn was T_Worph That was such a cool one yesterday lol

[iBlaze²]

Ok, I've had a chance to go through my track collection now and find a some more which you may want to consider for inclusion. There are both crazy and normal fun tracks here. There are quite a few, but I believe a big pack would be better as more variety = more fun.

Fox-Brunway
J_TurboCurves
JA_Hell-Cross
oraculo
[vimio]QuiteShort
Dby-Illegal_street_racing_01
Dby-Pitstop_at_the_beach
Dby-Suspiria
de_SnowRally
DownTown
JA_RallyRing
k-FlyBabyFly
k-Peikkomets
VPA_Amoeba
VPA_CheeseBeach
VPA_Groyne
VPA_Hyppelo
VPA_Joentaa
VPA_Leka
VPA_Oasis
VPA_Road
VPA_Tattaraa
VPA_Vega
VPA_WheelchairBeast
xx_Fuseday
[orange]Chukie
[vimio]Intersection
[vimio]Semester
Besser
de_Ciduitis
deifiruP
Fox-Rendlesham
J_Amazonia
J_Inwoken
J_Kontula
J_LowPath
JA_KZ-SpeedValley
Jn_Stoneville
Jn_SwampHorror
Jyllandsringen
k-Middlewood
k-Shortcutting
Lowrider
Mikulatiks
Monforte
pu_Vasarang
Dby-Double_knot_raceway
J_Fall
Hot_Road
small01
small03
k-Tiny


Also these ones might be considered but I'm not sure if others would like them:

k-Watertube (maybe too crazy?)
k-Speed! (maybe too long?)
VPA_Numbers (maybe too long?)


I'm probably going to be shot for saying this but I would remove Jn_Wheel and VPA_ShortRing from your list.

[iBlaze²]

About the server, it's really strange - I can access the server files still and these were the final entries from the server log:

Message: Track 5/20 will be Isletwist (by Ande).
Message: <Jormeli> janne out
Message: Max players: 4
Message: Points for the fastest lap: 0
Message: Points for positions: 1 1 1
Message: <[fS]Janne> brb
Message: [fS]Janne banned.
Message: [fS]Janne kicked from the cup.

So that explains why you couldn't connect back again Janne and probably explains why your restart failed too.

However, I found a cached version of the server list, tried to connect via the game and just got the inevitable "connection failed" message. I find that really strange since I can still access the server files

It's almost as if the server took a sudden dislike to Janne after he lost Easy KO and decided to go into hiding lol.

[Tijny]

If Janne was the one who banned himself, it would explain why the server went down immediately afterwards. Kicking or banning yourself causes the server to crash for some reason, we've experienced that on the LVP servers on more than one occasion.

[Janne]

Yeah, I banned myself. Too bad I didn't know about that bug.

Obviously in normal case I should be able to join as a spectator since I only banned the nick. Also I'm quite sure it shouldn't affect on restarting via FTP-access.

[Whiplash]

Yeah Blaze, your list is finally great. As I could check, all tracks should go in.
I couldn't find lot of those tracks in TS database, but those that I could are all good. So, I just hope that you used the same criteria for all tracks.
And, of course, we can survive without these:
k-Watertube
k-Speed!
VPA_Numbers
n_Wheel
VPA_ShortRing

I would like if you could find at least 250-300 tracks for the new big pack.

[Tijny]

Added:
Fox-Brunway
JA_Hell-Cross
oraculo
Dby-Pitstop_at_the_beach
Dby-Suspiria.trk
JA_RallyRing
k-FlyBabyFly
VPA_Amoeba
VPA_Groyne
VPA_Hyppelo
VPA_Joentaa
VPA_Tattaraa
[orange]Chukie
[vimio]QuiteShort
[vimio]Semester
Besser
de_Ciduitis
Fox-Rendlesham
J_Inwoken
J_Kontula
J_LowPath
Jn_Stoneville
k-Shortcutting
Pu_Vasarang
J_Fall
K-TosiPieni
VPA_Beam
T_Cuckoo
Jn_Mini12
Destroy-SIC

Removed after long consideration:
Jn_Wheel
VPA_ShortRing

Removed after getting annoyed on VPA's server one too many times yesterday:
K-CityRun

Could't find anywhere:
J_TurboCurves
Dby-Double_knot_raceway
deifiruP

----


Right now there are 190+ tracks, which is a good number in my opinion. It means that on average, a track will make an appearance only once every 19-20 cups. I don't think the number should be much larger than this, since it could mean you'd have to wait forever for the ones you want to drive.

List updated.

[iBlaze²]

Could't find anywhere:
J_TurboCurves
Dby-Double_knot_raceway
deifiruP
----

Were these the only ones? I'll make a track pack of any you couldn't find and upload it somewhere for you to download and consider.

Right now there are 190+ tracks, which is a good number in my opinion. It means that on average, a track will make an appearance only once every 19-20 cups. I don't think the number should be much larger than this, since it could mean you'd have to wait forever for the ones you want to drive

I think we should make it up to a nice round 200 and that would be perfect. 200 is much easier to remember than 194 when picking numbers for tracks.

If you have the track pack almost ready, would you like me to make the source files? (I suggest tracks.fullcontact.xx, etc. and leave the crazy/fun ones that are currently there as they are for those occasions when we do want really crazy tracks).

I think if we get this done we can have the new track pack set as default as soon as the server is back up again, without the need for a temporary switch to fun or racing tracks, which would be great!