Fund -Donation Project

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:36 am

So this is my idea... if many people from the TS Community agrees with this idea and give their full support i will take this project very very seriously.

As you can see and read there is a post called 'FEATURE REQUEST' where many of you write their suggestions for the next version.

Part 1

My plan is to go through that list, consulting each other and decide what really is important. Finally come up with 'real' requests for next version.

Part 2
We give this request list to Ande but also ....
create a paypal account or something where everyone can make a small donation. When we have collected a good sum of money we pass it to Ande as a gift for his effort for making the community's dreams come true - FEW FROM THE MANY may be a good motivation to have the next version very close to the community's wants and wishes. The game is just create, but needs some more features.

Jeffrey

Hengari · Post by **Hengari** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:26 am

Jeffrey wrote: Part 1
My plan is to go through that list, consulting each other and decide what really is important. Finally come up with 'real' requests for next version.

I have made a list some time ago(, but after that I haven't checked which requests have been filled): http://jollygoodgames.com/forum/viewtop ... ight=#2439

The more complete and updated list can be seen: http://verteksi.net/turbosliders/files/ ... re-req.txt

Jeffrey wrote: Part 2
We give this request list to Ande but also ....
create a paypal account or something where everyone can make a small donation. When we have collected a good sum of money we pass it to Ande as a gift for his effort for making the community's dreams come true.

This idea has been discussed earlier and Ande said something like "not necessesary" or "bad idea". I can't say anything on behalf of Ande, but as I understand it, this is just a hobby and programming for fun and any amount of money wouldn't change a thing.

edit: There was some talk about donating money to get new tiles, but it was generally a bad idea: http://jollygoodgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344

In my opinion Turbo Sliders doesn't need anymore features (maybe some small enhancements) but needs more players. The coming 1.08 provides some more features like xbowl -support, damage and missiles (at least i saw them working in beta-server).

Mouse · Post by **Mouse** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:35 am

hmmm money? Well, dont know if giving money would be such a good idea, dont know though.

Hengari wrote: In my opinion Turbo Sliders doesn't need anymore features (maybe some small enhancements) but needs more players. The coming 1.08 provides some more features like xbowl -support, damage and missiles (at least i saw them working in beta-server).

Is that confirmed? You know those will be in 1.0.8?

Hengari · Post by **Hengari** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:21 am

Mouse wrote:
Hengari wrote: In my opinion Turbo Sliders doesn't need anymore features (maybe some small enhancements) but needs more players. The coming 1.08 provides some more features like xbowl -support, damage and missiles (at least i saw them working in beta-server).
Is that confirmed? You know those will be in 1.0.8?

Well, I saw them working ok. That's what I saw.

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:36 pm

Hengari wrote:The coming 1.08 provides some more features like xbowl -support, damage and missiles (at least i saw them working in beta-server).

Nice but not necersary. This is going into the wrong direction. Before any new features are added it would be more important to
a) getting more players
b) improve existing problems

With existing problems I mean:
1) making objects less sticky so that a simple crash can't drop you half a round behind because you are stuck somwhere. that would be very finde to improve that and
2) maybe working on a tile set or tile creator or something to stop the people uploading 1 MB tracks to their servers.

But as I said the game is perfect as it is now, new features are not really important for me. But when TS 1.0.9 is coming with 3D, inside cockpit view, battle mode, capture the flag, jump contest etc. etc. I hope that Ande will release the source code of 0.86 because he created a different game which won't be in conflict with his former Turbosliders that many of us liked.

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:57 pm

2) maybe working on a tile set or tile creator or something to stop the people uploading 1 MB tracks to their servers.

But when TS 1.0.9 is coming with 3D, inside cockpit view, battle mode, capture the flag, jump contest etc. etc

So it seems that my idea of making ande a donation is not good.

We can't just stick to tracks with low file size but very poor/plain on graphics. That is why it is important to have an HQ website, where everyone can upload his tracks.

Regarding 3D inside cockpit view play LIVE FOR SPEED - its a 3d online game. Turbo sliders must remain as it is - 2D bird's eye view.

and i personally think that turbo sliders needs more options... and not missiles.

On the market there are other games like TS with a larger community. Why? Its developement is on the go. TS is great, but still much room for improvement:

just to mention: fuel is great, but needs better interface, maybe qualifying session before races, and the option to make tracks big as 5000 by 5000 pixels, not just 2000 by 2000.

You can make big rally tracks..

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:41 pm

Jeffrey wrote:We can't just stick to tracks with low file size but very poor/plain on graphics.

Why not? The graphics - even if they were much simpler in the old version - still were able to have enough players. No need to change anything there, only some more wall parts etc. maybe.

Jeffrey wrote:Regarding 3D inside cockpit view play LIVE FOR SPEED - its a 3d online game. Turbo sliders must remain as it is - 2D bird's eye view.

My comment was a little bit ironic and I think it's already trying to move too far away. So it would be really important to improve existing things first.

Jeffrey wrote:On the market there are other games like TS with a larger community. Why?

Really? Which one?

Its developement is on the go. TS is great, but still much room for improvement:

Jeffrey wrote:and the option to make tracks big as 5000 by 5000 pixels, not just 2000 by 2000.

Pah... this is going complitly in the wrong direction. Tracks should not be allowed so big at all. There were more players when tracks were smaller. I think only a minority (which seems to be more active in discussions) likes such huge tracks.

dby · Post by **dby** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:23 pm

Flexman wrote:Why not? The graphics - even if they were much simpler in the old version - still were able to have enough players.

I don't think that had as much to do with the looks of the game as that it was free.

Flexman wrote:Pah... this is going complitly in the wrong direction. Tracks should not be allowed so big at all. There were more players when tracks were smaller. I think only a minority (which seems to be more active in discussions) likes such huge tracks.

My old trusty computer already have some trouble handling 2000x2000, but I don't think large tracks should be forbidden. Well, it might be a bad idea to put them on an official auto server, but if the Malta community likes to have a server with huge tracks I see no reason to forbid that, though it would be nice if there was a "warning" in the server description.

Also here, I don't think track size has anything to do with the amount of players now. Why are the players that want small tracks with old school grafix so quiet? Or did most of them leave when they had to pay?

I don't mind new features... it's good for people who like modding, which create more games for the price of one. But I do agree that there is more pressing matters that should be dealt with, like the community page...

...or making walls less sticky. I think the car should be able to turn around although it's side is pressed against a wall... maybe a bit slower than usual, but it should turn and push itself from the wall. This would solve the getting-stuck-problem.

But also there is the question of what is more fun for Ande to work on.

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:42 pm

dby wrote:
Flexman wrote:Why not? The graphics - even if they were much simpler in the old version - still were able to have enough players.
I don't think that had as much to do with the looks of the game as that it was free.

That's right but on the other hand it shows that these players weren't missing much. Only thing they missed was the ability to kick wrong-way-drivers.

My old trusty computer already have some trouble handling 2000x2000

That's true. Maybe you shouldn't forget that you'll limit players with that.

Also here, I don't think track size has anything to do with the amount of players now.

For me it has. Reason: You have less overtaking manneuvres which makes the game less fun. As the game suffers from a lack of players now it would be bad to make the tracks bigger as this will decrease your chance to meet opponents on the road. This only would work if you use it with faster cars (like these rallysport cars).

Few players and small tracks is already boring, but few players and big tracks is even more boring.

Why are the players that want small tracks with old school grafix so quiet? Or did most of them leave when they had to pay?

Maybe a part of them left, the other part remained for 1 or 2 month and left later because of lacking opponents. I guess the reason why these players are so quiet now is that they never were interested in having discussions, league races or organized cups. They just wanted to start the game and start playing. As this is not possible anymore they all left. Current players do not know what the community was and take the game into another direction now. So they won't come back anymore. Although I guess they made most of the players.

But I do agree that there is more pressing matters that should be dealt with, like the community page...

...or making walls less sticky.

Another thing is the visability of your car if it is below a bridge. This a thing we are waiting for now since 0.96 came out. Sometimes I really can't understand why dealing with new features if there are still existing things that need improvements.

Ande · Post by **Ande** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:04 pm

If you want to maintain a public feature request list, it is ok. One problem with donations is that the main problem with TS development is not money but time. I would not be able to promise to complete any features for any reasonable price. But if there was a public feature request list with some kind of voting possibility, I could use that as a guideline for what to do (for "free"

) when I happen to have time. One big problem is that different people have very different opinions on what should be done next. What someone thinks is a very important new feature, others consider complete waste of time that destroys the game.

1.0.8 beta will be released *very* soon. I know that many racing enthusiasts may think some of its features are waste of time. But since so many people wanted damage and when it was implemented, it became quite straighforward to make those battle mods, too, and it was fun to make them.

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:57 pm

Ande my idea was just to thank you for your effort. I really appreciate what you are doing for us.

Its a really nice games. I scrapped away all my lastest games and put all my body and soul on this game.

Thanks again.

I was surprised that version 1.08 is coming out soon (now beta phase)

What i really wish is to have the oportunity to make larger tracks in editor and obviously play in game. I think this does not require much programing. I wish that the editor will allow you to make maps big 5000 by 5000. I have big plans for this. My tracks are all big in size, but are available for download, before playing.

Please Ande this is what i demand most.

Ande · Post by **Ande** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:16 am

The big problem with bigger tracks is that even if Editor allowed to make tracks of that size, older client versions would not be able to load them. So that kind of feature would break compatibility with older versions

. Also, memory requirement goes bigger. So, unfortunately I can't promise that feature very soon

. Currently, the maximum size of a track is 2000 x 2000 but you can use double-resolution images of size 4000 x 4000 (even though those will be quite big).

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:35 am

When talking about improvements, how about the visability of your own car and obstacles below bridges? And the less-sticky-crashes?

Xaykev · Post by **Xaykev** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:11 am

Thanks Ande for this great game, the 1.0.8 already..WOW!!

I think the fixing of the sticky walls should have high priority, the gameplay will be better then.

And I also think that qualifying laps before the races would be cool.

Take care

fasteddie399 · Post by **fasteddie399** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:29 pm

And I also think that qualifying laps before the races would be cool.

Yes, or at least a new / command to set the starting grid manually, like

/start <playername> <position>

/start fasteddie399 1
/start Ande 2
etc.

I realize that error-handling for this idea might be a bit involved though. (i.e. if admin forgets to assign someone to position 3)... but I know you can do it!!!

or, as an alternate method, a single-line command based on the current /who order:

/who
/start 2 5 8 4 3 1 7 6

Just some ideas...

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:37 pm

And some snow and ice tiles. I just raced on the fun tracks server and noticed that TS again downloaded 768 KB and 7 files just for having ice tiles. This would not be necessary especially as the old version already had ice tiles and the new one somehow has them too.

Hengari · Post by **Hengari** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:00 pm

Flexman wrote:And some snow and ice tiles. I just raced on the fun tracks server and noticed that TS again downloaded 768 KB and 7 files just for having ice tiles. This would not be necessary especially as the old version already had ice tiles and the new one somehow has them too.

Blame the trackmakers for that. The ice-snow -tiles are included in the tiles already.

And keep the suggestions in the right thread: http://jollygoodgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:16 pm

Hengari wrote:Blame the trackmakers for that.

The ones who put such huge tracks on their servers should also be blamed. There'd be a 200 KB limit...

And keep the suggestions in the right thread:

Oops, this was the donation thread... Sorry, mixed that all up.

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:42 pm

Quote: The ones who put such huge tracks on their servers should also be blamed. There'd be a 200 KB limit...

Flexman i don t agree with you. If we want to improve the level of our tracks size has to go up.

Yes i agree with you that if file size is big downloading it through the game can be frustrating and annoying...

but... we can also place the tracks somewhere for other people to download first.. like for example a private website.

Thats what i do... al my tracks are above 1mb of size, but all my friends have it from my website..so that is not a problem anymore

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:04 pm

Jeffrey wrote:If we want to improve the level of our tracks size has to go up.

What needs to be improved there? TS is a simple top down view 2d game, no need to make it bigger, larger, etc. The fun comes from the game itself and not from the graphics.

Also those who made such big tracks often didn't optimize anything...

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:53 pm

I think we both agree more track graphics = larger size.

But there are two kinds of peple out there, those who like small simple tracks, and those who prefer bigger more graphical tracks.

In fact many track designers make a lot of tiles/tracks using photoshop or corel draw.

So the game must support all kinds of tastes.. the option is there use it if you like.

but i agree with you, first better improve the basics

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:12 pm

Jeffrey wrote:In fact many track designers make a lot of tiles/tracks using photoshop or corel draw.

Maybe I wouldn't complain so much if they somehow try to learn how to make tiles smaller in size with having about the same quality. But most tiles are with 16 million colors and another thing is that I even don't see much difference in the track!

Someone once made tracks which looked like in Micro Machines 2. I understand that you need new tiles for making these tracks. But these tracks (which looked completely differnt) were much smaller than most of these large brasilian tracks where the only difference I see is that some zeppelin is flying around there...

Ande · Post by **Ande** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:03 pm

One comment about seeing cars below bridges. I have thought about this and believe it or not, there is no easy technical solution for this and since I have never found this to be such a big problem, I have not considered it worth the effort. It is actually quite hard to find out when a car is below a bridge, and with SDL, all alpha blending is so frustratingly slow anyway that many solutions would make the game slower. And what exactly should happen when the car is only partially under the bridge? It is even more time consuming to test if every pixel is under a bridge...

What would you suggest to make wall collisions less sticky? Should the car be able to drive through a wall in some situations or should the wall push the car back more? That could perhaps be tried, but it is hard to find a good solution. Anyway, if you bump into a wall, some might say you should not be able to continue at all any more

. And you can always go backwards. But yes, perhaps something should be tried...

dby · Post by **dby** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:59 pm

The biggest problem when getting stuck is when the side of a car is pressed against some kind of wall, sometimes only slightly, and it can't turn either way, only go backwards. I think the car should be able to turn anyway, pushing itself from the wall. At least in the normal arcade mode... some cup with fuel, damage and F1 cars might prefer it getting stuck.

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:55 am

Ande wrote:One comment about seeing cars below bridges. I have thought about this and believe it or not, there is no easy technical solution for this and since I have never found this to be such a big problem, I have not considered it worth the effort.

Well, at least Newton stopped playing TS because of that. I think most do not see this so dramatically but before adding some new features it would be nice to improve the playability. And when you crashed somewhere below a bridge it can be nasty to figure out how to get your car out there.

What would you suggest to make wall collisions less sticky?

Dby described this problem very well. A slightly touch can make you completely stuck into an object. I think there should be a difference if you really crash into it of if you slighlty touch it from the side. It's also a mather of the angle somehow.

The whole situation got worse in 1.0 since objects have other shapes now where it is even easier getting stuck. It would also help if you also create some tiles like strait walls (which existed in the old version) or round circles. But the tiles used now for the roads often are horrible!

Anyway, if you bump into a wall, some might say you should not be able to continue at all any more .

I guess these guys should go for some real Formula 1 game. This is Turbosliders. But if you really want to turn this game into a serious racing simulation maybe you consider releasing the old version as PD.

TurboSliders.com

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Thanks Ande for all your work!