No ice and snow in 1.0?? Icy tracks missing!!

[Flexman]

Today I wanted to make some funny Tracks with Ice and Snow for TS 1.0, but unfortunately I did not find it in the Editor.

Is there really no ice and snow in Turbosliders 1.0?? I think there should be some icy tracks on the Server... Remember: Arctic, Speedway, Tungos and that one track where you had to bounce in the ice. They all were funny.

So, why is there no ice and why don't you put Turbosliders 0.86 tracks on the 1.0 servers? They still are funny although the grass looks a bit strange now.

[madcowie]

We must think alike. I tried exactly the same thing out and noticed there was no snow

MCR

[Ande]

Yes, the new default tile set does not contain ice and snow. You can use the old tracks, though.

The problem is that this would easily have doubled the amount of work needed to make the graphics. Lots of more winter stuff would have been needed (Arctic was, after all, the ugliest default track in 0.86 ). It was better to make something well than to make many things not well.

In the future, there may of course be tiles updates, if the number of players continues to grow.

[madcowie]

So 0.86 version which I dont have has ice and snow tiles but if we swapped the tiles across would it have ice and snow physics?

Maybe you could help me if so by putting a zip together with the textures in it.

Thanks
Stu

[Ande]

So 0.86 version which I dont have has ice and snow tiles but if we swapped the tiles across would it have ice and snow physics?

Maybe you could help me if so by putting a zip together with the textures in it.

Actually, the graphics are there in 1.00, too, they just are not in the default tile set because the graphics have not been remade and look very ugly compared to everything else .

If you want to make a track using only the old tiles, you can create a track, save it when it is empty and exit the editor. Then change "include tiles2.til" line to "include tiles.til" in the trk file. It is possible to use both tiles at the same time, too, but it requires more work... I am not really sure if I want that to happen so for now I just tell you to read README-mod.txt to get ideas on how to do it .

[madcowie]

And do the tiles have slippy physics? Cant see the point otherwise.

Stu

[Ande]

And do the tiles have slippy physics? Cant see the point otherwise.

Yes of course, everything is fully backwards-compatible.

You can actually make completely new terrains for your tracks. You can also redefine old terrains (for example making slippery tarmac) but that is of course not recommended.

[Flexman]

The problem is that this would easily have doubled the amount of work needed to make the graphics. Lots of more winter stuff would have been needed (Arctic was, after all, the ugliest default track in 0.86 ). It was better to make something well than to make many things not well.

But the 0.86 tracks were more fun to race on, and in my opinion it's is better to have more fun than better graphics.

If you go for the graphics then you have to make everything in 3D. But Turbusliders is a game that lives from the fact that it is funny to play it and not from the graphics.

[Flexman]

Maybe you could help me if so by putting a zip together with the textures in it.

Hi, I finally solved the problem:

Download the File you find at http://404.tin.at/upload/tiles2a.til

Copy it into your Data-Folder. Then start creating a new track. Let's say test.trk. After the file exists just close your Turbosiders-Editor and open the test.trk in a text-editor and change Line 8 from Include tiles2.til to Include tiles2a.til.

Then you have the new parts and can use ice and snow as usual.

I think you'd copy the tiles2a.til also in the directory where you have the tracks, then there will be no problem that the tracks will be uploaded correctly if someone is downloading it from you while playing the game.[/i]

[Flexman]

Maybe you could help me if so by putting a zip together with the textures in it.

I now made some textures with more 1.0 look.

You can download it at http://www.tin.at/sliders/snowice.zip

Just go ahead like mentioned above, but use the snowice.til instead. Then you will have all the old parts plus snow and ice.

I also included a demo track in that zip, but I have to admit that you can do more beatiful tracks with this.

If you want to run a server you also have to copy the .til and .png files into the track directory where the track is located.

[madcowie]

Maybe you could help me if so by putting a zip together with the textures in it.

I now made some textures with more 1.0 look.

You can download it at http://www.tin.at/sliders/snowice.zip

Just go ahead like mentioned above, but use the snowice.til instead. Then you will have all the old parts plus snow and ice.

I also included a demo track in that zip, but I have to admit that you can do more beatiful tracks with this.

If you want to run a server you also have to copy the .til and .png files into the track directory where the track is located.

I did copy the til file into my tracks directory. As for the PNG files which do you mean? I made one of these tracks last week and when the guys joinned it loaded for them but they could not move off the line.

Stu

[Hengari]

Just go ahead like mentioned above, but use the snowice.til instead. Then you will have all the old parts plus snow and ice.

You're tileset is not very nicely done. You don't need add all basic-tiles to your snowice.til. In trk file just add Include snowice.til line below the basic Include tile2.til. You must always add that another include line to trk if you save the track in editor.

Also i don't have trasparency in those snowice png files just like there is in basic terrains png-files. In editor i see white where there should be nothing.

There is still a better solution for ice/snow graphics in TS, working on it.

I would say that do not use that awkfard solution by flexman.
Your snow/ice graphics are though nicely done. But solution for using them in TS is not so nice.

[Guest]

The optimal situation to do own tiles, is to keep the number of extra tiles as minimum as possible. Basicly, you need only one tile, if you want new graphics. The tiles can be defined in trk-file directly. This is done using TileDefinition -syntax:

TileDefinition terrains.png snowice-img.png
Tile 701 0 64 64 64 0 128 128 128
Tile 703 0 64 32 32 0 128 64 64
Tile 705 0 64 16 16 0 128 32 32
Tile 711 0 64 64 48 0 128 128 96
Tile 713 0 64 64 32 0 128 128 64
Tile 715 0 64 64 16 0 128 128 32
Tile 717 0 64 32 8 0 128 64 16
Tile 719 0 64 16 4 0 128 32 8

Tile 901 64 64 64 64 128 128 128 128
Tile 903 64 64 32 32 128 128 64 64
Tile 905 64 64 16 16 128 128 32 32
Tile 911 64 64 64 48 128 128 128 96
Tile 913 64 64 64 32 128 128 128 64
Tile 915 64 64 64 16 128 128 128 32
Tile 917 64 64 32 8 128 128 64 16
Tile 919 64 64 16 4 128 128 32 8
End

If you add these lines to tracks trk-file (right after include tiles2.til-line) it will work and no extra til-file is needed. When you save in editor, these lines will disappear from trk-file, so you need to copy them back there before testing the track in game.

Now, the snowice-img.png -file should be in same directory as track and no other files is needed. Because the terrains.png file is allready in data-folder. Basicly everything, that is in the data-folder, can be used with this method to make and define your own tiles.

You can look my tracks puArena8b, speederjump as an example of doing this. I use existing material from data-folder in those tracks to create new tiles.

[Punatiainen]

'the guest' was me

[Ande]

If you are using graphics from the data directory, I would suggest makig extra tiles so that first, you create your own tile file to be used during making the track. Edit trk file to include the file (replace include tiles2.til with include yourtiles.til). Yourtiles.til would first include tiles2.til and then define new tiles. When the track is finished, edit the trk file, replace include yourtiles.til with everything that was in yourtiles.til. This way, the track consists of only two files (pat file and trk file). Of course, if you make completely new graphics for the track, more files are needed.

[Hengari]

Using old snow/ice graphics in new version and not get that "track is in old format" you get a track looking like this: dhost.info/sliderpoint/img/trk/hg_Icepower.jpg (no url-link because hotlinking is not allowed)

Not very good looking but no extra files are needed.

The trk file is modified by adding those TileDefinition lines (Thanks to Punatiainen for help). Just look at the hg_Icepower trk file. The track can be found at:http://www.sliderpoint.tk

[madcowie]

LOL I cant believe you used my track as an example of wrongs!!!

Stad De France was run at night. Therefore I was ment to have some black sections. It also did not matter in the slightest as you never ran on the black sections.

If the bridge had twisted 45 degrees I would of never had those problems. And the bit you say is missing is not on my PC

Dont have a problem with you using it really though

Stu

[madcowie]

Been thinking about tracks as well. I was going to post this but I think it would be good idea if you mentioned it on your site.

Corners with markers on the inside need curb and then grass before marker. This would stop the driver in front making a mistake and then the driver behind running into them. The amount of times it happens is mad!!

Stu

[Hengari]

If the bridge had twisted 45 degrees I would of never had those problems.

The bridges will turn 45degree when editing in the trk file, but is doesn't work as supposed and hard to place the bridge to right place.

And the bit you say is missing is not on my PC

That is because different zooms and resolutions. There is always a chance that even if you test with lots of different settings you still miss something and it shows like a gap in the track.

Thanks for ideas for trackdesign -guide. I will think about that and add it with some example maybe...

[Flexman]

You're tileset is not very nicely done. You don't need add all basic-tiles to your snowice.til. In trk file just add Include snowice.til line below the basic Include tile2.til. You must always add that another include line to trk if you save the track in editor.

We could make a 2nd snowice.til for people who like it more this way. But it shouldn't mather how do it because the basic tile files and images will also be used if you do it the way i described it.

Also i don't have trasparency in those snowice png files just like there is in basic terrains png-files. In editor i see white where there should be nothing.

At least in the snowice3-img.png there is transparency. The snowice-img.png doesnt really need one and as I decreased the image to 256 colors which makes it smaller I didn't set one. The snowice2-img.png might need transparency tough, but that can easily be fixed.

I also left the tiles where they were in the img files so that i didn't have to play around with the positions in the image map. The images don't really get bigger then because all the space is the same color, but sure that can be solved different if you aren't lazy.

There is still a better solution for ice/snow graphics in TS, working on it.
I would say that do not use that awkfard solution by flexman.
Your snow/ice graphics are though nicely done. But solution for using them in TS is not so nice.

If someone will add a perfect solution for that snow/ice-tile problem that would be fine! However I only wanted to provide a quick solution for the use in between.

Using old snow/ice graphics in new version and not get that "track is in old format" you get a track looking like this: dhost.info/sliderpoint/img/trk/hg_Icepower.jpg (no url-link because hotlinking is not allowed)

Hey, I like this track. Can you make more of these?

[Flexman]

LOL I cant believe you used my track as an example of wrongs!!!

Uh he used mine too...

But: No space between the boarder was on purpose. Do you know my track "Turn Around"? There you drive at the boarder most of the time. I like that somehow if you can go out of a curve and drive on the edge. Of course not so many tracks should have this. And: You really should look exactly how to place the check points there so that no one can miss a check point when driving on the edge.

The other critics: Where the lines don't hit each other there is an obstacle. So that line-drawer had also to drive around this obstacle.

And where the curve and line was misaligned: I admit I was too lazy. I just get mad sometimes having to use the mouse for moving things just 1 pixel. It reall would help if you could use the cursor keys to navigate the parts in the editor.

At least the check points on my tracks are fine, that's the moste important! Remember all the Puna-Tracks on 0.86 servers where everyone drove somewhere else. This is not a design-contest and new tracks often look too perfect for me. There were a lot of 0.86 tracks which didn't look so perfect, were neither odd, but were funny to drive. I miss these since it seems that 1.0 track creatores look on the design too much.

Concerning the confusing track with the bridges of MGS44: I don't mind such tracks if the don't appear too often. But if you have 10% odd tracks in a cup I really don't mind, they often are funny.

[Hengari]

But: No space between the boarder was on purpose.

Yep, I supposed that. I should point out that the track design -guide is mostly about my "what is a good track like" opinions. So comments are welcome. I think that there should be some space between track and edge.

And about those tracks I used as sample, they just happened to be good examples. There were also other tracks that could have been used as an example (or I could have made my own examples).

It reall would help if you could use the cursor keys to navigate the parts in the editor.

Yeah, it would be nice because you can't be sure where the tile "lands" when pushing mouse button. If it shows that it is on place, after clicking it is a little bit wrong place. Editor feature maybe . A cursor key moving would be nice, but then how to switch tiles?

At least the check points on my tracks are fine, that's the moste important!

Yep, it's the main thing. There were a lot of those checkpoint-missing tracks in 0.86.

This is not a design-contest and new tracks often look too perfect for me. There were a lot of 0.86 tracks which didn't look so perfect, were neither odd, but were funny to drive. I miss these since it seems that 1.0 track creatores look on the design too much.

Heh, I admit that I like nice looking tracks with simple and not so complex layout and I spend maybe too much time on a track to make it almost perfect to my eyes. I don't like if there is too much stuff in a track. There were those funny to drive tracks in 0.86 but also those could have used some polishing.

Cncerning the confusing track with the bridges of MGS44: I don't mind such tracks if the don't appear too often. But if you have 10% odd tracks in a cup I really don't mind, they often are funny.

A funny track that could be if I oculd just see where to drive next. All I see is one bridge and a lot of asfalt. People drive with different settings so it is needed to give some clue where to drive next.

Hey, I like this track. Can you make more of these?

Thanks, I have been thinking about that snow/ice thing and made some new tiles but the work is not finished. Maybe some more of those oldstyle snow/ice tracks could be nice.

[Tijny]

At least the check points on my tracks are fine, that's the moste important!

Well...

Last night, when Mike Nike, Kobradog and I were just "fooling around" a bit, I discovered this:

I don't know about the other cars, but for Speeder making the cut is definately faster.

[Flexman]

At least the check points on my tracks are fine, that's the moste important!

Last night, when Mike Nike, Kobradog and I were just "fooling around" a bit, I discovered this:

Ouch... That might have happened because I used the 0.86 as basis, let's see if there is a tree different or something else that works better with this checkpoint. I'll fix that.

However it shouldn't make much difference in the race because the chance is big that you'll crash into one of the trees and screw up your race. For highscores of course this is a differnet thing...

Concerning the 1.0 Tracks now I figured out what I miss! Curves in most 1.0 Tracks are too smooth. It doesn't need so many odd tracks but nearly all Tracks have smooth curves. Not like the one you posted the screenshot here. Well it might look ugly but somtimes I like tracks when the curves look a little bit crappy...

[Flexman]

Using old snow/ice graphics in new version and not get that "track is in old format" you get a track looking like this: dhost.info/sliderpoint/img/trk/hg_Icepower.jpg (no url-link because hotlinking is not allowed)

Not very good looking but no extra files are needed. [/url]

With my files it would look like
http://www.tin.at/sliders/snowtrack.png

Maybe we should include the tiles in your file like you do and put up and update anywhere so that everyone can update the new snow and ice tiles and use them.

Then we won't need extra files, have the 1.0 look and maybe Antti includes new snow and ice tiles in 1.1 wich wouldnt make any difference to the tracks we made in between, because they get the 1.1 look then.

BTW: you were right there is a transparency problem, I think in the snowice2.png. The snow tiles were a quick draw so if some has better ones just put them online somewhere.