AI drivers:

[SetonHallPirate]

Is there ANY chance that artificial intelligence could be added into the game. For those of us who prefer to race stand-alone, it gets awfully boring driving around a track when we're racing against nobody but the clock. Thanks.

[Ande]

Is there ANY chance that artificial intelligence could be added into the game. For those of us who prefer to race stand-alone, it gets awfully boring driving around a track when we're racing against nobody but the clock. Thanks.

Good news is that AI drivers are in the TODO list but bad news is that I cannot promise how much it will take before that feature is actually implemented. It is quite hard to make AI drivers in a game like this since different cars behave so differently and there are so many different tracks. It will probably be implemented so that you can have AI drivers only in the default tracks with default cars.

[Hengari]

It will probably be implemented so that you can have AI drivers only in the default tracks with default cars.

Develope an AI algorithm for AI drivers that learns the track and computes the driving lines for every track. This way you get AI drivers for all tracks

[Razzle]

I would first really consider if AI players would bring any additional value to the game.

In my opinion, not. More and more people have nowadays a fast enough internet connection; why would they want to play against AI players with zero personality or whatsoever. Ande, don't waste your valuable time with those algorithms...Implement something else from your TODO list

[Guest]

yeah like promoting the game more. If there are always people and servers online then there is no need for AI. And it would be boring since they would just stick to the lines

[Mike Nike]

And it would be boring since they would just stick to the lines

Humans are more or less uncalculatable, when you cmopare them to computer enemies with artificial intelligence.
It might be kind boring, yes, when the AI just sticks the line.
Especially when the line wouldn't change much each lap.

But AI can have, maybe as options,
- not constant races: lines are nearly the same, but they are sometimes slower in turns for example...-> a option "constantskill" from 0-100% for example
- ...different (extra) characters: the boolean option "pusher" or also as scaled pushinglevel from 0-100%, where 100% is very agressive (tries always to push if necessary), 0% - tries never to push, and would brake/drive from road for avoiding a push maybe
- character "blocker": same to pusher, just that he would block, if the chance is there
- character "gentleman": 0-100%, for example after pushing someone out by accident, he says "sorry <playername>..." or slows down x seconds as symbol that he waits for the pushed out player or if in options wanted, there can be scripts concerning the race-result -> if the AI lost by 0.1 sec to you, he says something like "tight win, congratulations! " or whatever you want.
- character "bad looser" or "arrogant" or something equal: 0-100%, who would call others as "lucker", when they win tight, as example say-script^^.
That's not necessary, but need to mention it, because it's somehow funny .

Well, since the AI can more or less remember, if they pushed/blocked, crashed by accident or were crashed from behind and lost x seconds to get back to the line, then there can be say-scripts too, or the behaviour during the race would change, like with the proprety "revenge" 0-100%, even a gentleman with 100% revenge would have for example up to 100% temporary "pusher"-character, for example for the next 2 races and´only fixed to the car, who pushed him out from his line, when it is high significant.
Another characterproperty (an option to add to the AI character) would be, that he would try to drive as fast as possible, when he is 'behind' and when he would be in >5 seconds lead, he would wait for 2 seconds for example, to give the race more tension (also depending from the porpertylevel, which is between 0 and 100% then). Or if his lead (2 seconds) is raising within the last checkline(s) very fast, then he waits too- that happens when the 2nd crashed.

Well, these are just some ideas and i actually know about some problems and consequences, when different characters are generated, when a "bot" (computer enemy with AI) is added, like with the command "/bot /add -0 -0 -0 -50 -50 -100" where the options can be setted immediately or "/bot /add" with standard character options or "/bot /add /rnd" with random generated character.

But finally, in the TS system, with its checkline-system, its tracksystem with its tiles and involving the cardefinitions/-physics, it seems to be very hard and needs long time and many tests to create an algorithm for artificial intelligence _for all tracks_ (and maybe also for all cars), even if it relative simple.
AI is soluteable with finding a relative good line by manual and save it for each car for each track. Furthermore, when the a car is pushed out, it is sometimes behind some wallobjects and a pathfinding algorithm is maybe needed to find back to the line maybe. But all in all, the "way-points", the line for car x, must exist for the track then. The problems are here:
- waypoints are never 100% perfect, but that's maybe not bad
- each waypoint is created for 1 lap or more laps, so that when a lap is driven, the AI can choice 1 of the possible waypoints for the next laps on random or by his character etc. (fast lines must be noted then somehow) -> but these waypoints might cost many KiloBytes sometimes and for many tracks this can be also a problem, since you like to create waypoints for each car and for many laps maybe.
- and surely also some more problems, which i don't mention now

[Guest]

I'd say that we need it - think of those of us who are online at odd times (when compared with most of you, that is - ie - those of us on the other side of the planet). Having AI cars would not only be good for single players, but also to pad out a field of 4-6 drivers to make for hard racing.

I'd make the option only available to registered users, however.

[captainpotato]

Last post was me - I upgraded my distro via a hard drive format, so my auto-login went.

[Flex]

I would first really consider if AI players would bring any additional value to the game.

The only advantage of AI players I see is that they could make the server full, so that more players will join a server because they think there are already many players in this server.

[JimMiE22o2]

How would the AI work. I mean, were not perfect. Well most of us (excluding: Tinjy, Mike Nike....). People bump and crash. Would you make the AI crash every so laps? Oh well, im just a kid. I don't make the games, you guys do. I thinks that if it works, it might be helpful to practice consitant lines when there are no people late at night. Good luck Ande!

[xzeal]

well my game making experience is very low, but as far as i know, with the creation of AI tracks have to be upgraded manually, for the AI to work. That would be a lot of work :/.

and algorythms that teach the AI .... im guessing creating something like that requires a genius...

[Hengari]

AI tracks have to be upgraded manually, for the AI to work. That would be a lot of work :/.
and algorythms that teach the AI .... im guessing creating something like that requires a genius...

It doesn't really require a genius to make an algorithm to recognize the track and create automatically the "best" drive lines. It would need some work and maybe to change the track format. I have seen an Artificial Intelligence algorithm which was learning the right lines for a Turbosliders -styled track.

My own opinion is that if Ande has a lot of free time to spare or it is easy to implement an AI driver could be helpfull for n00bs but I still prefer driving in network games or locally (alone) to learn to drive other cars than slider.

[Mike Nike]

Actually the algorithm won't be that big problem to create.
The problem is only, that the calculation might take a bit long, maybe...
Since tracks are based on checklines, the algorithm will try to find the fastest way to get from one checkline to the next, until last checkline.
Another Problem is in addition, if the algorithm should find a) the fastest driveable lap or b) the fastest driveable lap, which can be driven constantly.
Arena is a track where b) is very nearly to a) with the most cars.
But there are many tracks, where b) is much slower, for example, when there is a curve immediately after the startline.

Back to the algorithm: since tracks are based on checklines: more checklines would maybe help the algorithm to find the best line. On the other hand, selfcreated waypoints or waypointzones might be also nice for helping the algorithm, since it can help to make it faster on that way, i think.

Well, maybe the AI in ~1.05 will be based on recorded laps of version 1.04, who knows
Perhaps, Antti M. can find a way to use the recorded laps data as help for artificial intelligence or for an algo. which finds the best line(s).

[Ande]

Actually the algorithm won't be that big problem to create.

I hope you won't have too high expectations .

The easiest solution would be to require having pre-made driving lines for the tracks that the AI is going to be able to drive in. That is at least where I am going to start. It is indeed a hard problem to try to make AI learn driving lines by itself but it is a somwhat independent problem and it could be implemented separately and maybe even in later versions (if ever).

But the main emphasis in AI drivers is supposed to be something that newcomers can train with before they dare challenge old-timers. I doubt they will be anywhere so good that they would have chance against good human players. But you never know...