Turbosliders is history :-(

[dede]

My point was that $0 vs $X matters more than the amount of the X.

Yup. So DEMO with all features but no statistics, profiles, nicknames, etc..

[Flexman]

Wanna bet? Cracked JazzySliders > SuckySliders. That's for sure. There are communities based on Cracked JazzySliders. Many players bought full version because they tried & played cracked version before (mostly punaball) and because they wanted to join our cups (punaball worldcup etc).

I think that proves that the current demo version sucks. Because if players of the demo version do not register and players of a cracked version register then there is something wrong with the demo version, that's sure!

Although I hope they didn't buy it just because of Punaball because this should be a Slicks'n'Slide like racing game...

Yup. So DEMO with all features but no statistics, profiles, nicknames, etc..

I hope they finally realize that the real problem is the current demo mode. At least Hatu now wrote that here so let's hope they tray something more than this ridiculous 60 minutes demo before the community now really splits into 0.86 and 1.x players.

[mikko]

Yes, Dede, that could be one solution. Another solution which came into my mind could be a temporary trial period, for a month let's say, without any limitations. The lack of players has be to reacted with some upsetting actions. Addition of fuel to the cars just doesn't make the trick.

[Hatu]

Wanna bet? Cracked JazzySliders > SuckySliders. That's for sure. There are communities based on Cracked JazzySliders. Many players bought full version because they tried & played cracked version before (mostly punaball) and because they wanted to join our cups (punaball worldcup etc).

I think that proves that the current demo version sucks. Because if players of the demo version do not register and players of a cracked version register then there is something wrong with the demo version, that's sure!

Although I hope they didn't buy it just because of Punaball because this should be a Slicks'n'Slide like racing game...

Yup. So DEMO with all features but no statistics, profiles, nicknames, etc..

I hope they finally realize that the real problem is the current demo mode. At least Hatu now wrote that here so let's hope they tray something more than this ridiculous 60 minutes demo before the community now really splits into 0.86 and 1.x players.

I am watching and reading all of this. I will pass the information on to my superiors and make sure it's clear what we need to do. This is obviously a problem that needs to be fixed. I agree with most of you that the demo mode needs to be changed; a lot for that matter.

I myself would love to fix the demo and advertise less. My thoughts are that the game will be boosted in players more if the demo version is improved. Much more than advertising via internet websites, which is what I myself am doing now and have been.

Thank you for your opinions and if you have any more questions/comments/suggestions submit them here please.

[Ande]

Nah.. the problem for cracked version and servers is that people can play only with 3-4 friends.. so it's not fun, and who likes the game then goes to buy it (i know 5-6 players that after crack decided to buy a license).

Would they have bought the game if the cracked version had worked better? One problem with different demo systems is that cracking may become much easier. I try to investigate different possiblities to try other demo schemes but there are no easy solutions.

[dede]

Would they have bought the game if the cracked version had worked better? One problem with different demo systems is that cracking may become much easier. I try to investigate different possiblities to try other demo schemes but there are no easy solutions.

They only wanted to join cups and our community. Cracked version works really well. I think that the demo system we suggested will be powerful for the community, and will keep more players to servers.

[Ande]

They only wanted to join cups and our community. Cracked version works really well. I think that the demo system we suggested will be powerful for the community, and will keep more players to servers.

That's what I mean: if you can't join other players' cups, I don't think you can call that the game works "really well". Would they have bought the game if they could have done that with the cracked version, too?

[dede]

They only wanted to join cups and our community. Cracked version works really well. I think that the demo system we suggested will be powerful for the community, and will keep more players to servers.

That's what I mean: if you can't join other players' cups, I don't think you can call that the game works "really well". Would they have bought the game if they could have done that with the cracked version, too?

What a question.. NO!
Btw, in the "full featured" demo mode there must be functions like:
/allowdemoplayers <0|1|2..> (Yes, No, Yes but switch to spectator the last one that came when a licensed player comes and server is full, Yes only spectating, etc)

/mutespectators <0|1|2..> (Yes, No, Yes but only if they are demo players, etc)

I'll make a list of functions and new commands, when i have time.

[xzeal]

I believe that the current price of the game has no practical influence on the number of registrations. To me the game itself is definitely worth $20, I would not hesitate to pay double or triple the price, as the game is the best one I've ever played. Just consider that you would get just four beers at the restaurant for that price. For your next four restaurant nights, drink one beer less than normally each time and that's it. I think it is a question of cost vs. no cost. It is a matter of principle for so many of us not to pay for a game. For many younsters, the problem might be that their parents do not allow them to buy the game and they have no means to do that on their own. In either case the price is unlikely to be the major issue.

Without serious rethinking of the demo mode (or some other magic trick) to attract new players, JGG must soon realize (if they already haven't) that the game does not bring them money. Let's hope the game will then be released as freeware. That would be much better than to divide the community to 0.86 vs 1.08 players. The community is simply too small to afford that split.

In theory 20$ is not an insane amount of money, but as long as there are cheaper and as addictive games out there it will just hold back the sales. 20$ is not much for us since we are already completely hooked on TS.

Now mikko, i never go to the restaurant, i don't have an income source, 20 $ in Estonia is about 15 liters of beer at the supermarket and beer costs twice as much then in the Czech Republic for an example.

TS wont split in two since 1.0x is superior to 0.86b in almost every way. I would gladly play 0.86b, but i would rather see the same community in both 1.00 and 0.86b then two seperate ones, since the game is the same(, just looks better and has less lamers on servers these days).

Speaking of lamers in September-November 2004 before 1.00 came out usually when i went on a playtrix server half the players drove in the wrong direction on every track. If 1.00 would not have come out ever, TS would not have a much bigger community, because there was no pro mode, autoservers were all full of lamers who instead of racing only bumped people off the road. So you could only have a normal race in a manual server, where someone would bother to ban every 3.rd player. Personally i have been very pleased with how Ande has developed the game, but i definately don't agree with his choice of publisher.

And im going to bad-mouth about Jollygoodgames until someone, FOR THE LOVE OF BEER, MAKES A NEW PUNABALL AUTOSERVER. That was the most popular server in TS, by the way even demo servers are empty these days.

1.0x also has the advantage that i have someone to blame for things i don't like.

PS: Can someone explain to me what this is all about? http://www.jollygoodgames.com/turboslid ... loffer.htm

[Flexman]

TS wont split in two since 1.0x is superior to 0.86b in almost every way.

I often hear that 0.86 was more fun than 1.x. I cannot really compare since 1.x never had that much players so maybe it was just the missing players.

But I liked the simplicity of the tracks and also the psychedelic look of some tracks. This unfortunately is completely gone with the new version, everyone just does realistic tracks.

Whatever the reason is, if the community was big enough one could do a retro server and we can have both...

Speaking of lamers in September-November 2004 before 1.00 came out usually when i went on a playtrix server half the players drove in the wrong direction on every track. If 1.00 would not have come out ever, TS would not have a much bigger community, because there was no pro mode, autoservers were all full of lamers who instead of racing only bumped people off the road.

You forgot about the server tool MikeNike wrote. With it it was possible to have OPs. Unfortunately only for people with static IPs in the beginning but the system could be improved so that admins can login to a website and have admin rights then.

And im going to bad-mouth about Jollygoodgames until someone, FOR THE LOVE OF BEER, MAKES A NEW PUNABALL AUTOSERVER. That was the most popular server in TS, by the way even demo servers are empty these days.

Punaball was most popular because it is the only thing that might be fun even with few players. Racing with 4-6 players just isn't fun.

But it's really ridiculous that Jollygoodgames isn't able to make an own official lag-free autoserver. The autoserver shouldl also cover the idea of the game (with standard cars and tracks in standard shape) and everyone who wants something else like Formula 1 should make his own autoserver.

[xzeal]

I often hear that 0.86 was more fun than 1.x. I cannot really compare since 1.x never had that much players so maybe it was just the missing players.

That is exactly why 0.86b was more fun seeing 3 servers with 16 players in em at the same time is something 1.00 hasn't gotten even close to.

[Flexman]

I often hear that 0.86 was more fun than 1.x. I cannot really compare since 1.x never had that much players so maybe it was just the missing players.

That is exactly why 0.86b was more fun seeing 3 servers with 16 players in em at the same time is something 1.00 hasn't gotten even close to.

3 servers with 16 players would be a fine goal for the next 2 month. 1 normal, 1 retro and 1 F1. Hatu?

I wasn't happy that the official site denied all the time that there is a problem with the amound of players although every one saw that 1.0 didn't even come close to 0.86 concerning the players in the servers.

Hmm... and I still miss the simple but psychedelic tracks somehow.

[mikko]

In theory 20$ is not an insane amount of money, but as long as there are cheaper and as addictive games out there it will just hold back the sales. 20$ is not much for us since we are already completely hooked on TS.

Now mikko, i never go to the restaurant, i don't have an income source, 20 $ in Estonia is about 15 liters of beer at the supermarket and beer costs twice as much then in the Czech Republic for an example.

Yes xzeal, generalization always fails. The beer comparison was symbolic, of course; you can replace it with whatever applies to you. Let’s say if you, for instance use car for moving from place A to place B, the $20 can move you for a few hundred kilometres. Use bike every now and then and that’s it. Or whatever is the target where you can do some savings.

For most people in the world $20 is a lot of money, but so is $10, actually even $1. $0 is cheap for everyone, and that makes a big difference. There is no question that the price affects sales, but as I wrote previously, I believe it has no practical influence. Decreasing the price from $20 to $10 would slightly increase the number of registrations but not so much it would be profitable for JGG. It would require the registrations to double. Sounds unrealistic to me.

As you said, the cost of $20 is not much for us because we are hooked. Hooking is what the demo mode should do for new players, but it must not satisfy them. If demo mode itself is satisfying, there is no need to register. This is how it was with the previous demo mode, which generated the community of easyslider specialist. What did registration provide them with? A long list of empty or half empty servers and a bunch of new cars and tracks they could not drive, thus losing their competitiveness (if there were other competitors). That’s why they returned to the demo server, which was frequently full of players. The demo players should not be satisfied. They should be hooked, begging for more. They should be made to see that $20 is not much, as we who are hooked see it. Frankly, it is not much. If you play this game each day for a year, that is 5 cents per day. For god sake, I pay 200 euros for my TV-license per year and I play TS more than watch TV.

[Flexman]

Hooking is what the demo mode should do for new players

Mikko I'm not quite sure what you want to say exactly but in my opinion you can only get hooked to the game if you can take part in the game without serious limits.

The only shareware game I ever registered was Slicks'n'Slide. I played it so much that I thought it was worth it and that I wanted to have the track editor. I never would have been hooked to the game if it only was possible to race three tracks in the demo version or 60 minutes.

But you also have to get a small extra if you pay. Like the track editor in Slicks'n'Slide. But if you get nothing and even have to change the INI-entry yourself like in TS 0.86b that also didn't make me pay I have to admit.

[mikko]

Flexman, one can get hooked to a game with limitations. One just cannot enjoy it so must because of frustration. If people drive hours at demo server each day, aren't they hooked? That's how it used be about a year ago when I found TS. There are at least two routes for registration through hooking: (1) Hooking to the game + frustration due to demo's limitations = registration and (2) Hooking to the game + appreciation of the work of its generator = registration. I chose route (2) after two days of playing. I only got myself familiar with other features of the game after about a month. I did not need to do that earlier since I was satisfied with the demo mode.

[Hengari]

But if you get nothing and even have to change the INI-entry yourself like in TS 0.86b that also didn't make me pay I have to admit.

Hehee, but it feels so much better to edit the ini-file "Supported 1" when you have really supported the gamemaker. TS is one of the few games that I have supported. Back then we had so much fun with friends playing Slider-cups...

It's hard to get new players when the game is not a big hit like WOW or something like that. As I understand the players with full version are kinda friends so marketing is done by mouth-to-mouth.

There has been lot's of talk to make the demo-version better and in my opinion that could help if there is some hook to still by the full version.

As I now tried the demo I don't undestand why someone wants to play just demo. Maybe there could be easier ways to buy the game like with SMS. And the prize was at first about 10e? which is much tempting than 20$.

(And in the forums I really hate these multiple "what word is above" text when posting multiple times or editing posts)

[The Dude]

PS: Can someone explain to me what this is all about? http://www.jollygoodgames.com/turboslid ... loffer.htm

Yes, somehow they got a special offer.
I translated it with google so it isn't 100% correct.
See here.

I don't get it. Is this a new offer or an old one?

[Mike Nike]

As far as i know, it might be an/the old one, when the full version has cost 10$ elsewhere.

[fasteddie399]

I don't know about everyone else, but I think it's been too long since the last time JGG gave us all an update on what's being done to help this game and its community.

Hatu has mentioned a few plans, and Creator has said a few things, but this was all a long time ago, and obviously the visitors to these forums are wanting to know what's up. Here's an idea: advertise in gaming magazines, like PCGamer. I get PCGamer, and every month there are a few "smaller" games, like TS, that are highlighted. I'll bet that if TS was in there, the autoservers would become quite full of players... IF, and that's a big IF, the demo mode is modified... but we've talked enough about that already.


As for http://www.ts-central.net, I've been having discussions with Ande about the game's records system and ways to enhance it with database coding and such other technical things... What this amounts to is that there is a chance that ts-central will be able to link directly to the official records, in real time, and in a database format, which allows a myriad of sorting/filtering/listing methods (i.e. show a particular player's best times at all tracks, show average ranking for a player amongst certain tracks, etc., etc., etc.). Almost ANY data can be extracted in this way, and I think it would be a great addition to the site and to the game as well. And, perhaps more importantly, a 2nd records server might become a reality, which will handle ALL tracks, not only the default ones.

Also, I intend to make other improvements to the site in the coming days.

[dby]

Wow! That's great news. TS-Central is becoming the site we all wanted.

I think printed adds are quite expensive. I read about TS in a gaming mag, not an add but a small review. That's how I found it. I think it had a lot to do with TS being free beta at the time. I think a new demo mode which allows people to join the fun for free (with extra features, as discussed, for registered players) along with a good press release to all magazines and gaming sites could generate a lot of articles, and new players. And I bet some of them would like to support the game and/or get the extra features.

[fasteddie399]

Wow! That's great news. TS-Central is becoming the site we all wanted.

Thanks for the compliment, but there's still a long way to go!

How about for the demo mode making it full-feature (no track/car restrictions) but with a 30-day expiration time? In other words, after 30 days, you cannot play the game at all any more. OR, after 30 days it becomes limited features, like how it is now perhaps. I really think that new players need the no-restrictions "mode" to really get a feel for the game... like playing with the track editor, experiencing the near-limitless customizability of the game through custom tracks and cars, etc. etc...

Just my thoughts...

[mikko]

Fasteddie, that record system sounds great! Go for it if you possibly can.

[zanttu]

I had retro cup last week. We played it with T cause nobody else didn't show up
Oh sorry, there was also Lzan but he had to left
So it really doesn't matter which tracks u have - there's just no players

Today I checked bans of playtrix server and was suprised



And we wonder why there are no players What the hell have they done to get a ban? There are pro mode so bans are really needless. I remember when there was quite many players in TS 1.x and then somebody started to give bans... If u only played in team-HUB u got banned... Pls... After that Rupert and Jagiz stopped playing and few others... So banning HUB was really bad mistake... All the problems started after that.

U are talking about playing again 086b If someone just can host a 24/7 server i'm there with u

[Flexman]

So it really doesn't matter which tracks u have - there's just no players

Yes... But I also think many left because of the bad servers, the pushing of the Easyslider etc.

U are talking about playing again 086b If someone just can host a 24/7 server i'm there with u

That should be possible. Since there still is no new demo mode I guess it's easier getting some players in there.

[dede]

So it really doesn't matter which tracks u have - there's just no players

This isn't true: yesterday we had a slider cup (without writing articles on forums etc) and one server wasn't enough to let all players play (i had to open a server #2). The problems are:

1) full players aren't playing like months before (less hours)

2 there aren't enough new demo players to have good demo cups (and remember that we have some great demo servers like TheDude)

This requires a new demo mode (but not limited in time -> this won't help the game) in order to:

1) have more players on full servers

2) show better features to demo players